discarded lies - tuesday, february 9, 2010 10:21 am zst
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evariste
China acquiring capability to destroy CBGs
Adam Yoshida points out a highly disturbing development. The Communist Chinese are seeking to buy the capability to destroy entire carrier battle groups, America's foremost instrument of power and force projection.
Quietly, and beneath the radar of the vast majority of Americans, the People’s Republic of China is building up its armed forces to pose a true threat to the United States. The latest sign of this danger comes in the form of reports that the Chinese are looking into acquiring up to forty TU-22 “Backfire? bombers from Russia.

If you’re a fan of Tom Clancy, or if you’re familiar with the operations of the US Navy during the later stages of the Cold War, the very name should send a shiver down your spine. The Backfire is powerful, long-range, supersonic bomber capable of carrying a number of powerful anti-ship missiles.

In the form of the TU-22, the Soviet Union devised the ultimate anti-carrier weapon. The concept was simple: these bombers would reach out into the Ocean to assault either US troop convoys or Carrier Battle Groups. The bombers would dash in at maximum speed, fire their missiles at supersonic speed, and overwhelm American defenses in a massive barrage.

These weapons were considered dangerous enough the F-14 Tomcat, the AIM-54 air-to-air missile, and the AEGIS air defense system were primarily designed to guard against them. Only through careful concentration of firepower would a US Carrier group be able to overcome a massed bomber strike of the sort that the Soviets were capable of and which the Chinese are apparently reaching for.

If the Chinese are seriously thinking about buying these bombers it’s an obvious sign that China’s entire defense posture is being oriented towards an assault on Taiwan. The TU-22 is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a top-tier ground attack aircraft. It has one primary purpose: attacking and overwhelming US Carrier Groups.

Put into operation, Chinese-run squadrons of Backfires would pose the first serious threat to American Carriers since the end of the Cold War.

Worse still, the Chinese have embarked upon a $10 Billion program of Submarine acquisition. While the exact quality and composition of the force the Chinese are seeking to create is unknown, it’s hard not to be disturbed by the obvious: the amount of money proposed would buy roughly seven Virginia-class Submarines at American prices. Just what will it buy China?

This must be put in the broader context of the broader challenge to American power being put forward by China. A recent report prepared for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld detailed the Chinese effort to gain control of strategic “chokepoints? on the world’s waterways. Most notably, as part of this effort, the Chinese have begun work on a canal (set to be controlled by China) which will allow ships to bypass the often-hazardous Straits of Malacca.

To make things even more concerning, a holding company owned by the Chinese has managed to take de facto control of the Panama Canal.

The truly alarming thing about all of this is just how smart the Chinese have been about all of this. They aren’t going to behave like the Soviet Union and have their Premier pounding his shoe on the desk at the UN. They’re going to smile a knowing smile as they kindly step towards us with their knife in their pocket.

What’s happening is very obvious: the Chinese are working quietly, but steadily, towards the day when their power will be so overwhelming as to make any challenge prohibitive. When they move against Taiwan (and it is only a matter of when, not if) they’ll be powerful enough that American participation in the defense of Formosa will mean the sure loss of at least one Carrier and ten thousand American lives. Faced with that sort of danger, virtually any American President will concede the day.

The thing being ignored in all of that is this: the day that China conquers Taiwan with the acquiescence of the United States and Japan will be the day that China becomes the master of all Asia.

Extreme solutions are the only ones likely to solve this problem. The Chinese have moved so quickly and so stealthily that our only chance to stop them is to take a roll of the dice on any of a number of risky solutions. Either we begin an immediate anti-Chinese military build-up and commit to defend the rest of Asia in the event of aggression by China or we begin to explore less orthodox means of reprisal.

I, for one, suggest that we begin by asking ourselves if, in the case of Taiwan, “proliferation? is such a bad word after all.
filed under red star on Jan 30, 2005 10:59 am
22 comments, latest by evariste at 11:07 am 1/22
#1 monkeyweather at 11:12 am on Jan 30, 2005
I think we should also all say a big THANK YOU to Clinton for making sure the Chinese had access to all of our top defensive military technology, including critical satellite technology.





#2 Lewis at 12:36 pm on Jan 30, 2005
Testing. I hope no one blew up bloggie again.
#3 zorkmidden at 12:37 pm on Jan 30, 2005
Why, are you having problems?
#4 Lewis at 12:38 pm on Jan 30, 2005

Your comment was denied for questionable content.



What's this all about? Oh, well. There goes my dumb joke about CBGB's.

#5 Lewis at 12:39 pm on Jan 30, 2005
I quoted the title of the headline, and then threw in a link to CBGB's website, but it made bloggie ill.
#6 zorkmidden at 12:41 pm on Jan 30, 2005
hmm...bloggie is supposed to ask my permission before it can deny anyone, anything...

bloggie! come here you little monster!
#7 Earl at 12:48 pm on Jan 30, 2005
"...will be the day that China becomes the master of all Asia. "

It is inevitable. There is neither the will or the capability in the US to stop the political hegemony of China in Asia. China has a surplus of young males of perhaps 200 million, each a potential recruit to the Red Army. A ~10% annual GDP growth rate. A crippling balance of trade surplus and current account surplus with any nation with which it conducts business. China is unassailable, even if its banking system collapses.

Further, America, even in her own backyard, appears to have conceded that strategic Canadian oil and steel interests may be acquired by China. I find this seeming disinterest especially puzzling.
#8 floranista at 5:31 pm on Jan 30, 2005
Yeah, the first thing I thought of too was why would China want to destroy a NYC punk nightclub?
#9 lawhawk at 6:01 pm on Jan 30, 2005
China has long wanted to project its power beyond just its borders. It has so far lacked the capaibilities to do so because of lack of technologies and/or knowhow. Acquiring the Backfires would definitely improve their ability to strike at CBGs, although it would be more useful as theater denial systems - limit where the CBGs could transit safely.

Think of the water between Taiwan and China. That's the first place that China would want to deny US and allies CBGs/task forces from operating freely. If you limit how the US can act in the waters around Taiwan, the Chinese force the US to react and change tactics to come to the assistance of the Taiwanese government. The same could be said about littoral waters. It pushes USN battle groups further out to sea in order to limit their ground assault capabilities and it changes the nature of potential plans.

Definitely not good news any way you cut it.

Yet, there is something else that we should keep in mind. The Chinese (and Soviets before them) long exaggerated their military capabilities beyond what they actually had. Now, while the US has to consider the worst case scenario - overbuilding capabilities and beefing up carrier defenses (and it wasn't just Backfires that were considered the threat, but Exocets and other sea skimmer missiles that brought about Aegis systems) - but there is a possibility that this is nothing more than bluster (see similar articles that the Chinese exaggerated their economic growth over the past decade that is unsupported by the evidence.
#10 Anonymous at 10:17 am on Mar 26, 2005
Let's get something straight...China does not want to harm the United States of America. They don't want any conflict, all they want is to trade and make peaceful progress. They do not want to attack Taiwan, but they will never allow independence simply because the stragetic consequences are unacceptable. Truth be told, China has a SENSIBLE REASON for reunification for it will safeguard their NATIONAL SECURITY. However the pro-independence Taiwanese only desire independence for their so called "Taiwanese" pride. It really has nothing to do with socialism vs. democracy, the PRC has long stated that they support the one country two systems policy so the whole freedom argument is shot to hell. So the real issue is not China's threats, but US interference. It is a common fact that if the US would back off the issue, there would be no more Taiwan issue. But they insist on sticking their nose where they don't belong, why? Because the US wants another ally to surround and contain China. They already have Japan, South Korea, as well as several South East Asians countries as possible military outposts. Taiwan is the final link in the chain. So if you're mainland China, and freeing Taiwan would result in becoming contained within a circle of possible enemy bases/ports/missiles, etc., would you give it up? No, not in a million years...never. Oh yeah, not to mention Taiwan is one of the US military's top customers. I believe people should do more research before they label China as the bad guy....if anything the United Sta....
#11 M. Simon at 5:24 pm on May 30, 2005
There is one choke point for oil the Chinese do not control.

The Straights of Hormuz.

#12 M. Simon at 5:26 pm on May 30, 2005
Earl,

It is possible China is cooking the books on growth rate.
#13 M. Simon at 5:30 pm on May 30, 2005
Anonymous,

I favor the one country solution myself. China unites with Taiwan beng the superior partner.

BTW Hong Kong is slowly being strangled politicaly and to some extent economically.

China has the same problem with Taiwan that England had with the American colonies. Having tasted independence they prefer to rule themselves.
#14 evariste at 5:41 pm on May 30, 2005
M. Simon-

There is one choke point for oil the Chinese do not control.

The Straights of Hormuz.

Unfortunately, Iran can shut down the Straits of Hormuz with ease, and is awfully cozy with China. As for China's cooked books, I agree and I've blogged it extensively.

#15 evariste at 6:18 pm on May 30, 2005
M. Simon, more on Hormuz: China's naval base under construction in Pakistan is to electronically eavesdrop on ship traffic in the Straits. Also, for more on Abu Musa island and the Straits, check out the third top topic in my Winds of War briefing.
#16 Anonymous at 12:53 am on Jun 09, 2005
M. Simon,

Some compare the China/Taiwan situation to the Britain/America situation...others would compare it with the Union/Confederacy during the American Civil War. I personally agree with the latter.

And yes, Hong Kong is now under the rule of mainland China, therefore control is slowly being transferred to China. Simple logic. What people should realize is that the majority of Hong Kong citizens SUPPORT mainland China and its economic rise. They protest for change in mainland China but they recognize more and more that China is their country. Many Hong Kong citizens travel to and from mainland China quite often and more and more people can speak Mandarin.

BTW, I know this because I live in Hong Kong :)

IMO it would be wise for the US government to support an eventual reunification, because independence would spell disaster for both sides. China will NEVER give it up, the location is WAAAY too strategic. It would be suicide for their military and oil/food supplies during any conflict. Even if they fight tomorrow and China loses, we will be back at square one and perhaps another 30-50 years down the road our children's children will be having this same discussion.
#17 Ed Mahmoud abu New and Improved for 2006 at 10:40 am on Jan 22, 2006
China is not the sweetness and light regime anonymous would like to claim.

They support the most evil regimes on the planet, like Sudan and Iran, and certainly don't face a threat from the US. The US is in South Korea because the Stalinist government of North Korea, with full support of the Chinese, invaded the South. The Chinese communists killed millions of their own citizens during the 1960s, and like most atheist Marxists, have little regard for human life. The old communists who still control the country will gladly kill to keep control, witness Tianmen Square.


If China ever had serious democratic reforms, I suspect they might be able to persuade Taiwan to take part in a peaceful reunification.

#18 annie at 10:59 am on Jan 22, 2006
Ed, why are you posting on a year old thread when there is a similar post from today and it's going strong right now. Come and join in over there.
#19 evariste at 11:00 am on Jan 22, 2006
annie-this thread is linked from that thread, and I guess Ed missed responding to anonymous at the time :-0
#20 Ed Mahmoud abu New and Improved for 2006 at 11:03 am on Jan 22, 2006
Oh, I thought I wa son the correct thread.



Ooooops, 'specially when I went to the LGF Open Thread and linked to that thread, and said time to ignore the bitterness, because it was important.

#21 Ed Mahmoud abu New and Improved for 2006 at 11:06 am on Jan 22, 2006
Wait, I'm still on the old thread, aren't I.


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#22 evariste at 11:07 am on Jan 22, 2006
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