bloggie

"Granddad was right"

Such civilised people...

The whole continent is undergoing a Nazi revival...

Oh, wait a minute, that would assume the psychotic, genocidal Jew-hatred ever went away....

This is in the former East Germany.

I guess after all these years, they can't get enough oppression.

More likely, they can't get enough Jew-hatred.

Hey, Max... maybe you could open a dunking booth over there. You'd get to speak your mind, while making a lot of money at the same time.

That's the expected outcome when the EU Kremlin, who don't represent the German people, get to decide things. Corrupt Latin Europe exports it massive African invasion problem up North. The Turks and other barbarians continue to invade from the east. No one is doing a thing about it (except calling you a nazi and a racist).

"Granddad was right"

Asshole.

This is about a tiny fraction of the German electorate.

For example, the last elections in Northrhine Westphalia, a Western state with a bigger population than all of former eastern Germany taken together the far right got just over one per cent of the votes, and it was no different in the federal elctions at the end of last year.

Who was Martin G calling an a-hole?

solus rex aka Q, who knows his assholes.

Asshole.

Martin G- I believe that was inappropriate in this case, because Solus was merely showing a result of "What Grandpa Knew Best" did for Germany.

I mean, not even counting all the dead Jews, Gays, Roma, Poles, English, Russians, Americans, French, Norwegians, Serbs, Canadians, Australians and Greeks, and all the ruin visited all around Europe by the Nazis, the final result of the Nazis was a Germany that had been bombed to rubble, with half the country occupied by the Soviet Union, destined for 50 years as a puppet state.

I actually refrained from posting a more graphic photo.

Which is specifically addressed to those who think (so to speak) their "granddad was right".

But hey, Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens.

Very nice, but nothing to with the issue at hand. A couple of idiots in the East, ect

Right, but you called Solus an a-hole for his reply to a couple of the idiots in the Ost.

How would you have reacted in my place?

I'm angry at them already. Solus had it coming, too, though.

I wouldn't want one pfennig of their Jewhating money.

You'd rather wallow in their hate, but you don't want their money?

Hmm, I saw this part in the original post only now:

like wearing t-shirts with the slogan "Granddad was right". Such civilised people...

So that's what Solus Rex was getting at.

Well, fine, I was wrong to call him an asshole after all and apologize.

It's 'Cents' now.

Btw, what's a dunking booth?

Martin G.

You should read the blog David's Medienkritik, to see how YOUR mainstream media looks to us -- it seems that the left in your country is just as deranged and sick as the Nazis (not that there's really any difference between the two - after all, the Nazis WERE Socialists, and one of the founders of the Baader-Meinhof Group is now a Neo-Nazi leader.)

Frank,

At what church are you the priest or pastor?

The Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Indulgence.

Alright! :)

The posts at DN often are pretty overwrought.

DM, that is.

I don't think I can survive the sum of both.

You have this amazing ability to downplay and ignore your nation's sins.

I just wonder what you Germans will all think of us in 25 years, when you are trying to convince some government bureaucrat in a then bankrupt nation to give you your pension --in Turkish.

Martin, did you see what I wrote about your country on another thread this morning?

And Kaspar is just the guy to sit in judgment ober our sins. ;)

No I dindn't until now.

I like the fosts, tooo. Btw, Germany still is 30 % forest.

I think the lack of sprawl and the sharp borders of the forests is due to the fact that Germany once was all forest and the inhabited land was carved out of it.

Max is sitting in judgement in the dunking booth.

Even though I'm picturing more of a cream-pie throw than a dunking booth.

Martin, re: dunking booth, it's this contraption a person sits in and other people try to hit a target with balls and if they succeed, the person inside the booth falls in the water.

But does this particular target have balls?

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

The entire eastern USA used to be forest, but did that stop them...?

The difference is, it happened over a long time, villages are what they are for historical reasons. People followed the patterns set by their ancestors.

Thanks RIP!

Martin -

Typically the person in the dunking booth will taunt passersby in an effort to get them to buy a throw.

Ah, thank you.

I can well imagine bigel sit in this. I'd dunk him with every shot. :)

We just had a "Prairie Dog Moment" here in the office.

Someone did something to the fax machine, and it made a really weird noise - everyone's heads popped up over the cubicle walls, like prairie dogs coming out of their holes.

Unification has not gone well for either part of Germany.

The east is a basket case compared to most other former Soviet occupied lands.

A couple of idiots...

"Granddad was right"

Anybody who hasn't read Sheridan's Nazi Seizure of Power, do so. It will send shivers down your spine.

When healthy race pride is suppressed, it manifests itself in pathological forms. It really bugs me that there are these two polar extremes of raceless "colourblind" assholes on one hand and rabid violent neo-Nazis on the other.

Healthy race pride? Now, granted, I'm usually a little happy when a white guy winds a boxing mach, but I'm not sure that is 'race pride' so much as the fact, that when two teams/people compete that I don't otherwise have an interest in, I root for the underdog.

And, in the long run, while you'll lose occasionally, you'll always make money betting against the white boxer. A similar axiom, not quite as true now, for both women's tennis and golf, in the long run, the lesbians usually win.

In Greece, where everyone is white, there are various degrees of nationalism and other than the Roma, it's Albanian, Bulgarian, and Russian immigrants - who are also white - who face racism and prejudice. So for some people it's an issue of race, for others it's an issue of nationality.

Maybe I'm wrong, but was healthy race pride in the Germans surpressed unnaturally late in the 19th Century into the early 20th century? And they still turned out pretty darned badly, didn't they.

If the cultured classes started to embrace healthy ethno-racial identity again, instead of the one-world leftist bullshit they currently support, then supporting the white guy in a boxing match wouldn't be the first example that pops into your head. You'd think of European art & culture (actual real culture, not the scheisse-kultur of reality TV shows, monster truck rallies, school shootings and Britney Spears), a sense of continuity with your ancestors, feeling part of an organic ethnic community, and all that other good stuff. If you have trouble conceiving how this would work for White people, just look at groups that haven't lost their racial, ethnic and cultural identity, such as the Japanese, or most indigenous groups.

Bed time, but while monster truck rallies aren't part of my culture, since i've moved to Texas, I've taken quite a liking to things that snooty Yankees and Yurpians (see the thread earlier, I believe a-hole was in the title which was basically some snob saying American culture is inferior) look down on, including C&W music (prefer the older stuff, untainted by the MTV-ization of country, that favors good looks over good music), football, NASCAR and beer.

And while people associate the redneck culture with white people, I know as a fact there are rednecks who are Mexicans, and while the percentages are below that of the general Black population, I've seen redneck black folks (t-shirts or cowboy hats, drinking beer) at NASCAR races.

So it is actually a cultural thing, mistaken for a racial thing.

Not on topic of Nazi Germany, but here's some info on Australia's attempt to reclaim a national identity...

"Certainly we are going to lift the waiting period to four years, there will be a fairly firm English language requirement and the paper itself ... will contain quite a number of issues," he said.

"It won't become more difficult if you're fair dinkum, and most people who come to this country are fair dinkum about becoming part of the community.

"I think most people will welcome it. You'll certainly need to know a good deal more about Australia and about Australian customs and the Australian way of life."

Howard, whose conservative government has been in power for a decade, said the changes were a step away from "zealous multiculturalism" and a reassertion of an Australian identity.

The opposition Labor Party leader Kim Beazley weighed into the debate this week when he suggested migrants and tourists should sign a declaration saying they support Australian values before they could get a visa.

The values cited by Beazley included freedom, democracy, respect for women and "mateship".

bed time- still watching for devastating floods Texas, maybe New Mexico and Oklahoma, even Louisiana, Monday and Tuesday as remnants of Pacific Hurricane Lane cross Mexico and head for Texas, and as an appeterif, maybe some good old fashioned Spring time like tornado action Oklahoma and Kansas, maybe into Texas, Sunday ahead of a powerful surge of Canadian air being driven by an intense polar low.

mateship? Sounds either gay, nautical, or both.

I always figured on running away to retire in Australia. Until I went to Croatia. Then I decided I'd like to retire there. But at least in Australia I wouldn't have to learn a new language.

The Dalmatian coast is so beautiful, and there are these islands down south that have the most gorgeous blue water around. The white stone buildings with their clay tile roofs are really cute. I can envision my little seaside villa.

-click below for full size-:

A Jew retiring to Croatia makes about as much sense as a Jew retiring to Gaza.

#27

There's a penalty for people who don't read my posts in detail. It's almost as bad as the penalty for people who don't read bloggie everyday.

That's a picture of Dresden solus rex posted, probably without even realising it. Aside from bigel, who here thinks that Dresded got what it deserved when it was bombed in February 1945? Considering the war was almost over, and this bombing had little to no effect to the ongoing war effort, destroying Dresden is often seen as unnecessary.

I too consider his 'joke' tasteless. But most here don't really care about that, do they?

Hmm seems I have to read better myself... I was too quick to judge.

And on the emotional level, I feel exactly as sorry for them as they did for the Jews.

1) The Dresden bombing was unnecessary, the only purepose was to kill civilians.

2) Other than you have been led to believe, the holocaust was not supported by the majority of Germans.

3) Bombings like these strengthened the German will ro resist to the last - it cost more soldiers on the Allied side their lives than it killed German civilians. For example, Allied casualties in liberating France were twice the German ones and the Red Army lost 300.000 soldiers while taking Berlin.

1) In the total war, the latter does not necessarily imply the former.

2) Somehow, I doubt it. But I'll leave the veracity of that on your conscience.

3) Maybe, maybe not. Other factors were involved, and "afterwards" does not mean "because of".

German soldiers/SS troops involved in shipping Jews to the camps and running the camps never told their family and friends what they were doing? It is hard to imagine the murder of several million Jews, and millions of other 'undesirables' went without notice in the greater German society.

BTW, what was the point of Hitler's V-1 and V-2? To terrorize the general population of England, and if countering those attacks with even more devastating attacks had any chance at all of making the Nazis stop, then I believe there was justification.

Some told what they were doing or had seen, but the censors prevented soldiers from wrtiting home about the holocaust. A lot of people back in Germany also were in denial, choosing to believe the propaganda about Jews being deported East to live there.

Dresden had bothing to do with the V1s and V2s

Dresden had everything to do with the attacks on London and other cities in England. The Nazi assault on completely civilian targets meant that there was absolutely no reason to hold off on the destruction of any German city.

PC crap, applied after the fact to WWII, is just an attempt to get some retroactive guilt giong, among the victors in this war that was forced on them.

Not gonna happen. Especially now that the west (at least the US, and more intelligent Euros) are seeing the effect of PC war in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Our refusal to bring ourselves down to the level of our enemies, destroying everything in our paths, has been seen by our enemies, not as decency (which they would not recognize in any case) but as weakness.

That has allowed third-rate people living in sixth-rate cultures propped up by the accident of oil money (which they were not even competent to exploit for themselves without western help) to believe that they can threaten anything, and do anything, and that the of west will respond in the same sensitive, limp-wristed way we have done so far.

Well, when it comes to death and destruction, these boys need to think less of how cool 9/11 was and a lot more of how Hellishly hot Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima were.

Boys, think about it.

When it comes to destruction, you are good at retail, but we can get it for you, wholesale.

My conscience can bear a heavy payload. :)

The Holocaust had so many layers of humiliation and dehumumanization, of both subtle and not so subtle degree.

It required total cooperation of the german population. Perhaps not with the final killing and burning, but with everything up to the point the victims were loaded onto trains.

Stuff it, MartinG.

The popualtion knew, and approved and/or did not care.

Anybody read Spiegleman's 'Maus'?

Anybody read Spiegleman's 'Maus'?

Mike;

I read it many years ago, and both volumes are now tucked into one of my "hope they're worth something, some day" comics boxes.

It was an amazing story, dark and powerfully moving. Too bad I read that Spiegelman had fallen into lefty-dom after the first election of W.

I can't remember, or find, the quote, now, and I might be remembering unclearly (me?) but I don't think so.

DWT,

I must tell you, I was not pleased after the first W election.

I had no confidence that the son of the father would have a just presidency, and with James Fuckhead Baker working the legalities and Cheney standing around looking like a plotter, I thought the election was being stolen, too.

That changed 9-11, when W found a purpose in life. It turned out to be fairly short lived, unfortunately.

If he does not deal with Iran, his presidency will have been a failure.

Anyhow, I can forgive SPiegelman not liking Bush's first election. I did not like it either.

Dresden had everything to do with the attacks on London and other cities in England. The Nazi assault on completely civilian targets meant that there was absolutely no reason to hold off on the destruction of any German city.

PC crap, applied after the fact to WWII, is just an attempt to get some retroactive guilt giong, among the victors in this war that was forced on them.

The war was all but over, why intentionally kill that many
civilians ?

I'm not trying to get some retroactive guilt going, I'm responding to people who seem to feel satidfatction about the attack on Dresden, *now*.

I really don't know the answer- had the Nazi Vengeance weapon attacks on England ended before Dresden happened?

Because if they hadn't, well, sorry for the children, but the people supported the Nazis, and any attempt to claim the vast majority didn't support the Nazis sound slike bunk to me, and if the Germans were still trying to kill English civilians, than Dresden was completely justifiable.

Our refusal to bring ourselves down to the level of our enemies, destroying everything in our paths, has been seen by our enemies, not as decency (which they would not recognize in any case) but as weakness.

That has allowed third-rate people living in sixth-rate cultures propped up by the accident of oil money (which they were not even competent to exploit for themselves without western help) to believe that they can threaten anything, and do anything, and that the of west will respond in the same sensitive, limp-wristed way we have done so far.

Well, when it comes to death and destruction, these boys need to think less of how cool 9/11 was and a lot more of how Hellishly hot Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima were.

Boys, think about it.

When it comes to destruction, you are good at retail, but we can get it for you, wholesale.

Disagree again. There is no reason to kill all that many of them.

There aren't that many high-value targets in the Arab world, once those are gone, the "sixth-rate cultures" won't have anything left.
And waht are the "third-rate people" going to do? Swim across the Mediterranean or walk to Europe on over land?

Martin;

I do not feel satisfaction about any attack on any people at any time.

But I do not second-guess the actions in a war that ended 6 years before I was born.

Do I know why Dresden was attacked, other than that it was an yet-generally-undamaged city of the aggressor nation?

I have heard stories of munitions plants, and the possibility of underground manufacturing, but whether those were true or not, does not matter at this point.

I am tired of the debilitating effects of western guilt.

Martin;

Again, if they are unwilling or unable to put reins on the idiots who are dragging them into a war they are incapable of winning.

If they are willing to dance in the streets at the murders of innocents, and shout such vicious insanity as the Pope should be beheaded for daring to insult (i.e.; tell the truth) about islam.

If they are so ready to support jihad against the west, then whatever happens to them will be on their own heads, both literally and figuratively.

March 27, 1945 was the last V-2 attack to kill a British civilian.

A month after Dresden- so the Allies were completely justified. To be the first to use a terror weapon against civilians is a crime, but I believe it is a crime to not retaliate when your own civilians face daily terror attacks.

I'd say the Germans, after putting the Nazis in power, should consider themselves darned lucky we didn't have atomic weapons ready before the Russians reached Berlin.

Martin -

I feel immense satisfaction over the bombing of Dresden and other Nazi German cities. If your lot didn't want total war, you really shouldn't have started one. Tough shit. Your people are lucky they were allowed to live at all, given what went on in that war.

Even now, as you precious Germans prance around as obnoxiously in your pacifism as your grandfathers did in militarism, what do we see in the news? Yet more American genocidal maniacs making electoral headway in Iowa or Texas, both places Germans *love* to mock as being full of hillbilly bible-thumping, drooling morons?

No, we find them in Germany. Again.

You goddamn sophisticated Europeans *never* get it, do you?

If they are willing to dance in the streets at the murders of innocents, and shout such vicious insanity as the Pope should be beheaded for daring to insult (i.e.; tell the truth) about islam.

If they are so ready to support jihad against the west, then whatever happens to them will be on their own heads, both literally and figuratively.

How many of them really do that, besides those we see on TV?

Much better to destroy the trappings of modernity they had bought with the oil-money. Afterwards it still can be sorted out with which of them we can live with, and with which of them we can't.

A friend of my dad's survived Dresden. Apparently over beers one night he shared the story of going into one shelter after the attack to see if anyone survived and finding they had been rendered into a pool of tallow several inches deep. After all the stories of Jews being made into soap and lampshades (which I believe have been proven apocryphal), it seemed like poetic justice.

This didn't stop him from moving to the US and raising his kids here.

BTW- per Wiki, Dreseden wasn't just some random target picked to kill civilians- a strategic purpose was to destroy the rail and communications facilities, to help prevent the Germans from resupplying the forces on the Eastern Front against Russia.

I found the answer- the Germans were still killing British civilians a month after Dreseden with V-2 rockets, and, as noted above, there were military considerations in targetting Dresden.

I don't know if the soap/lamp shades is apocryphal, but long ago I read a book about a Jewish man kept alive at Auschwitz (I forget if he was an engineer, or what, but he had a skill the Nazis considered useful) and the Nazis did pull gold teeth from the murdered Jews. That is plenty ghoulish enough for me.

Or worse, hair:

Before entering the gas chambers, many times, the Jewish prisoners had their head shaved. In the beginning, this was done because it helped in preventing the escape of an inmate, and also it aided in maintaining sanitary conditions. Later, it was ordered by the Economic-Administrative main Office of the SS (SS-WVHA) that all hair longer than two inches was to be collected. This accumulation of hair was recycled and used to produce felt and thread. The SS-WVHA also said that it would use the longer hair to make socks for submarine crews and manufacture felt stockings for railroad workers. In total, it is roughly estimated that a total of 60 tons of hair and 6 tons of dental gold were plundered from the corpses of Auschwitz victims. Of course, because Nazi records were destroyed this is a rough estimation based on an approximated number that four million prisoners passed through Auschwitz.

2) Other than you have been led to believe, the holocaust was not supported by the majority of Germans.

German soldiers/SS troops involved in shipping Jews to the camps and running the camps never told their family and friends what they were doing? It is hard to imagine the murder of several million Jews, and millions of other 'undesirables' went without notice in the greater German society.

With regards to destroying Dresden, it has been said that it had to be destroyed because it was so beautiful, because it was a symbol for Germany or German strength; the nazi 'spirit' had to be totally eradicated and Dresden helped accomplish this... thus is was a viable target. Point taken, but then stop arguing that Dresden was a strategical target, burnt down to shorten the war.

Sure we get it, the problem lies with the fat, ignorant, bible thumping Americans like you who think all Germans were nazis and all Europeans are obnoxious pacifists.

Jourdan

I feel immense satisfaction over the bombing of Dresden and other Nazi German cities. If your lot didn't want total war, you really shouldn't have started one. Tough shit. Your people are lucky they were allowed to live at all, given what went on in that war.

Germans in general didn't want total war. If you refer to the Goebbels speech, with the audience cheering in the Sportpalst in Berlin, that was a handpicked audience.

Even now, as you precious Germans prance around as obnoxiously in your pacifism as your grandfathers did in militarism

The majority doesn't, the pacifism is a thing of the left. The rest of us has always been at war with Oceania.

what do we see in the news? Yet more American genocidal maniacs making electoral headway in Iowa or Texas, both places Germans *love* to mock as being full of hillbilly bible-thumping, drooling morons?

No, we find them in Germany. Again.

Germans in general actually *like* Americans, even if they disagreee with American governments.

You goddamn sophisticated Europeans *never* get it, do you?

No need to lump all of us together, I do support the United States.

What makes you think Kevin is a Bible thumper. Just another commonly held prejudice by the post-Christian Yurpians, that since they reject the notion of a Supreme Being as an anachronism, then all the unsophisticated Americans must be Bible thumpers.

About half the people on this thread are either Jewish, atheist, or agnostic.

Yeah, but trains railed through Dresden only a couple weeks after the bombing...

From the same wiki:

After the main firebombing campaign between the 13th and 15th, there were two further raids on the Dresden railway yards by the USAAF. The first was on March 2 by 406 B-17s which dropped 940 tons of high-explosive bombs and 141 tons of incendiaries. The second was on April 17 when 580 B-17s dropped 1,554 tons of high-explosive bombs and 165 tons of incendiaries.[19]

About half the people on this thread are either Jewish, atheist, or agnostic.

Even if I and my ilk were the "problem" Omnivore, where are our genocide camps? Iowa? Minnesota? I can spot yours very easily on the map. People like both my grandfather had to interrupt their lives to go stop your family from raping and murdering. And now here you guys are *moaning* that you got bombed. It's all just so unfair!

And we can read your press, dumbass. We *know* what the discourse is like in Germany about us. We read your sneers, the way you call us (us!) criminals.

And quite sniveling and face facts. Right up to the end, the VAST majority of the German people supported the Nazi regime. This has been demonstrated academically over and over and over again. Hell, turns out even Grass dreamed of avenging Teutonic Knights and volunteers for the murderous submarine force only to end up in an SS unit.

You people can pout and preen all you want. Truth hurts. Your people started a war, and a bunch of fat, ignorant bible-thumping Americans fucking ENDED it. Boo-hoo, Klaus. Boo-fricking-hoo.

The rest of us has always been at war with Oceania.

I reacted in the same manner he did. While he probably meant what he said... my reaction was sarcasm. I guess you just read what you wanted to read...

Just another commonly held prejudice by the post-Christian Yurpians

Well, 2 weeks of interrupted rail trnasport could only have helped the Russians on the Eastern Front, and, of course, when dropping gravity bombs, only a certain degree of accuracy can be expected, and i9ncendiary devices act as a multiplier, as you only need to be close enough to the target to start a fire that will reach it.

Hey, I don't hate all things Yurpian, or even German- they showed some dude tapping a big keg of Spaten, and German babes with the groβe busen carrying like 8 or 12 beers, and I said, sure, they started two world wars in three decades, but the Hun ins't all bad.

And we can read your press, dumbass. We *know* what the discourse is like in Germany about us. We read your sneers, the way you call us (us!) criminals.

Some journalists do, but that's not generally the case.

Martin, the only way to help the cause now is to Hotlink images of German bier maids with the Groβe Busen carrying massive steins of Oktoberfest beer.

I'm not in the mood for dirty jokes, and I'd have to dig out some book by Charles Bukowski firsz to it anyway

PS: Bukowski was German-born, we are very proud of him.

Actually, they only started one of the two.

WWI was started by Serbia, Austria-Hungary, Russia, THEN Germany.

I'm actually Dutch btw, although of German descent. Just the other day I had a nice conversation with an American widow who visited my hometown for the commemoration of Operation Market Garden. Her husband died while conquering a bridge over the river Maas, and the bridge has been named after him. I've met many (older) Americans this way in the last couple of years and enjoyed listening to their stories. Most of these veterans and their families have become fond of the Dutch people they met here, because they felt the Dutch grateful for what they did over 60 years ago.

MartinG - That is just flat-out not true. The VAST majority of the German people hold very strong anti-American attitudes. The latest Pew poll in Germany showed only 36% of Germans polled having a favorable view of the US. The rest were strongly opposed.

My friends who work at our Embassies and Consulates there tell me weekly of the condenscending tone in which they are lectured about democracy and the rule of law. From people whose state dates to 1949 and only due to Allied military intervention, you Germans are awfully full of yourselves.

What's next here? Are we going to start whining about German ships that got sunk? Or maybe take up the cause of the Germans booted out of Poland after the war?

add *were* somewhere in that last sentence

8 beers, probably closer to a liter than a pint. She rocks.

MartinG - That is just flat-out not true. The VAST majority of the German people hold very strong anti-American attitudes. The latest Pew poll in Germany showed only 36% of Germans polled having a favorable view of the US

A favourable view of the US and the American people, or the current US government and it's foreign policy? My guess is the latter...

Are you always this ignorant?

Ok, she messed up the beer part, and the bussen aren't all that, but she is still cute...

So, let me get this right: France almost elects an unreconstructed fascist to its presidency, yet they understand nuance. Germany elected open Nazis to its states' parliaments, but the Americans are war criminals.

Sunday's regional election gains for the far-right NPD party are an embarrassment for Chancellor Angela Merkel and a fresh sign that the extremists are gaining influence in Germany's depressed east. Many there feel abandoned by the mainstream parties after years of mass unemployment and depopulation.

Why can't you run your country? Why massive depopulation? Why record unemployment? What is the matter with you people?

Yes, those are liter mugs in both pictures. I used to have one of those.

7 beers

Jourdan:

MartinG - That is just flat-out not true. The VAST majority of the German people hold very strong anti-American attitudes. The latest Pew poll in Germany showed only 36% of Germans polled having a favorable view of the US. The rest were strongly opposed.

I was referring to this poll.

German attitudes towards the American people are 65 % favorable. That's less than the 70 % of 2002, but still very positive.

I recall the dirndl thread now. What a wonderful, happy, thread that was.

Yeah I've been watching the opening of the Wiesn in Munich on tv last Saturday. Standard Wiesn glass is 1L, and if you ask for a small beer, you get 0.4L :)
I still would like to visit the Oktoberfest one day, but if it's just an excuse to drink massive amounts of beer, being surrounded by millions of people doing the same thing is not really necessary...

Some random facts:

* 30% of the year's production of beer by Munich breweries will be consumed in the two weeks of Oktoberfest.
* 12,000 People are employed at the Oktoberfest. Of these, 1600 are waitresses.
* There is available seating for 100,000 people.
* The six Oktoberfest breweries, (Spaten, Augustiner, Paulaner, Hacker-Pschorr, Hofbräuhaus, Löwenbräu) sold 6 million mugs of beer in 2005 (5.5 million in 2004).
* Roasted oxen: 88
* Sausages: 219,443 pairs
* Roast chickens: 459,279

Ok, she messed up the beer part, and the bussen aren't all that, but she is still cute...

Give it some timke, she's still growing. :)

8 liters of beer would weigh 8 kilos, not including the weight of the mugs. Not an unreasonable amount for the arms, but an incredible amount of angular momentum on the wrists.

The one in #114 is holding six in her left hand, and 2 in her right (but she is using them to support those in the other hand as well.)

Yes, Omnivore, I'm ignornant. Of course, I've read the Pew survey in depth that I cited. Have you?

And how are you? Still have a country? The one whose ministers say in the open that the way must be paved for shari'a? Don't expect another Market Garden, smarty-pants. It won't be coming this time.

Funny, isn't it, how one of the few in Holland brave enough to speak her mind got chased out of the country while you oh-so-tough Dutchmen do what you do best, i.e. hide with your heads down and hope the wolf doesn't pick your throat to tear out but your neighbors.

That's okay, though. She's better off here, where people can speak their mind and still say "Islam is crap" without the Under-Minister for Immigration and Multi-Cultural Affairs coming to your house to "question" you.

In Spain the standard beer glass/mug sizes are .25 L and .5 L. Cans are .33 L, .025 L smaller than the american 12-oz can.

In Bolivia beer is served in .025 L glasses, from .62 L or .65 L bottles, so it's not always easy to keep track of how much you're drinking.

Of these, 1600 are waitresses

That's 3200 busen... although I doubt they all look like #114

Here's 12!

In the USA, the only part of the ox that is eaten is the tail, and only a handful of people eat that.

Why doesn't the pic show using the img tag?

Are you making soup of it? And what's wrong with ox meat?

Btw, have you ever tried capon?

What keeps being missed by conscientious well intentioned people is that you MUST fight the battle brought to you, and do so in redouble. The blunt fact is there are only two nations capable of totally immoliating the entire world, single handedly, and to bait either of them is lunacy....yet the pissants continue. The ONLY solution is to strategically reduce the pissants to rubble, bereft of any resources, human or mineral. That anyone in Germany would argue that simple fact is surprising. That the idea encourages an enemy to fight to the last is bullshit, more myth and legend than reality...even in Germany high ranking Germans were petitioning to end WWII earlier by months...not the least of them Himmler, of the SS....in no small hurry to avoid reduction by the Russians.

The lesson learned should be only the winners get to make the rules...only the winners get to decide when enough is enough. Start a world confflagration, die a thousand deaths, repeatedly, redouble those you initiated.

I am convinced that disruptive technologies and asymetrical warfare today will redefine how we fight...think small nations with short to medium range nuclear weapons and long range submarines....what do you foresee? At the outset, US and Soviet, plus UK, nuclear armed submarines were 2nd strike deterents...e.g., if you strike first, I will strike you back anyway. Now, they can be, will become 1st strike elements in the new asymetry of conflict. Among other things, they reduce the effectiveness of forward basing to zilch. In the future, when you go to war you must go all out, totally, dedicated to the absolute destruction of the enemy, to the point they CANNOT procede, even if the will to do so remains. You will no longer have the luxury of reliable forward bases to sustain hegemony in geographic areas. Already UN and NATO "peacekeeping" enterprise is a joke.

I have seen "peacekeeping" that worked....villages reduced to seared dirt and stone, do not fire on you twice. If for no other reason than there is no one left to do so. Facing this scenario, there were instances of elements from the only military on the planet to ever defeat the US military, in effect if not on the battle field, actually paying "tolls" to cross territory controled by forces inclined to "keep such a peace." It works. Period.

I am willing to listen. What is the alternative?

You gotta put it inside the quotation marks, where you see this: <img src=""

Judging by your reply, it's pretty clear you haven't read any real news about this, but just very biased an opinionated sources. Poor you that you can't even form your own opinions...

Btw, link me to the pew survey that says only 36pct of Germans has a favourable view of your country. You read it, in depth even, so you probably have the url nearby.

It's just a semantic quirk in the English language, nothing more.

"Ox/oxen" is used to refer to cattle/bulls/cows that are used as beasts of burden. When they are sources of meat they are called cattle. For some reason, the tail is called "ox tail" rather than "bull tail" or "cow tail", and that's the only body part that uses the word "oxen".

The tail is used in soups, but generally by immigrants, as many Americans consider it to be too fatty.

Omnivore, I exist only to serve the More Enlightened among us. You know, those who can tell through a comment thread what another reads or bases his opinion on.

Here is your link.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=252

The ONLY solution is to strategically reduce the pissants to rubble, bereft of any resources, human or mineral. That anyone in Germany would argue that simple fact is surprising.

I wrote that, in extremis, it would be enough to take the trappings of modernity away from (some of) the Artab states. That would be enough.

zorkie, can you fix your reply to omnivore in #135 ..?

I linked to another Pew poll above, what about that one?

Indeed, it's not very common to see ox tails for sale in American supermarkets, unless you live in an area with a large immigrant population.

On the other hand, Knorr makes an instant oxtail soup mix that is widely available, and pretty tasty. Obviously, it doesn't have pieces of actual tail in it -- only the flavor.

More Groβe Busen, please. And more bier.

Please use the link button everyone, so joem doesn't yell at me anymore.

LOL!

:-D

Here's the poll I'm referring to yet again.

Either way, I dispute the value of polls:

ONE IN 3 AMERICANS SAY U.S. AIDED 9/11

Ah, I see.

Martin, I think that Pew poll you linked to is a bit older than the one I've just read and linked to above (though not by much). But, look, the answer is deeper than any poll. The knee-jerk anti-americanism is part and parcel of the German (and wider European) political culture right now. This is just beyond question and blindingly obvious.

But the bottom line for me here is that I cannot abide Germans or other Europeans complaining that they were ruthless bombed in WWII or making the outlandish claim that only a portion of the German people supported the Nazis. On the first, Germany was bombed and bombed ruthlessly until it surrendered unconditonally. On the second, it has been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of the German people supported the Nazi project. This support was of varying levels, from SS volunteer to the guy who ignored politics but liked all the flags, but it was there.

I frankly don't care overmuch who in Germany likes us or doesn't like us. I'm sure the Nazis your countrymen just voted into a state's parliament don't like us. And I'm sure some do.

The poll includes 2005

But the bottom line for me here is that I cannot abide Germans or other Europeans complaining that they were ruthless bombed in WWII or making the outlandish claim that only a portion of the German people supported the Nazis.

I'm not complaining, just responding to people who express satisfactiona today.

But the bottom line for me here is that I cannot abide Germans or other Europeans complaining that they were ruthless bombed in WWII or making the outlandish claim that only a portion of the German people supported the Nazis.

Yes, a big majority supported the Nazis, but were not in favor of the holocaust.

I frankly don't care overmuch who in Germany likes us or doesn't like us. I'm sure the Nazis your countrymen just voted into a state's parliament don't like us. And I'm sure some do.

I'm not fretting how many Americans like us myself, but I do have to point out that only 125.000 people voted for these Nazis, that's 0.125 % of the German population.

You say that like there's something wrong with yelling. ;)

You don't attack the whole world, you however, must reduce the enemy at hand to total incapacity, no means to buy anything, do anything...then, that is enough.

It is no longer about right vs. wrong, it is only about winning. The enemy intends to, by any means necessary. Do we?

I was against the first Gulf War. I gave less a shit for Kuwait, figured Iraq would sell the oil anyway, and I KNEW we'd open with an awesome flourish, then quit before the head of the snake was cut off. We did just that and put up with 10+ years of teasing bullshit. We in effect' gave legitimacy back to a partially defeated tyrant. We also sent a message that a framework existed for what could be gotten away with....how frigging dumb is that?

That screw up should have been our last "managed" war.

Fair enough, but how do you DO that? How to you keep your good friends from enabling them anyway, for their own financial interests?

You don't attack the whole world, you however, must reduce the enemy at hand to total incapacity, no means to buy anything, do anything...then, that is enough.

Take over the oil industry, and 3everything else there will fall apart.

Whenever I hear mealy mouthed apologia and revisionist history from agressors I am minded of Shermans Letter to Atlanta

"Now that war comes to you, you feel very different. You deprecate its horrors, but did not feel them when you sent car-loads of soldiers and ammunition, and moulded shells and shot..."

Germany had no problem murdering civilians in England and all across Europe. It had no problem sinking unarmed merchant ships bringing supplies to England. But now we're to feel sympathy for Dresden? Fuck Dresden.

The same parallel can be made for the recent Israeli war. Lebanon had no problem with Hizbullah lobbing missles at unarmed civilians but weeps and gnashes at its own civilian losses.

Boys, think about it.

When it comes to destruction, you are good at retail, but we can get it for you, wholesale.

Too true. I think the world has forgotten that.

And again...how do you DO that...take over the oil industry?

No doubt it would work in a laboratory setting, but in reality, how would you protect your holdings once taken over?

It is too late. Dithering does that. I think, just my opinion, that the demon is out of the bottle now, and must be excised, extirpated, destroyed.

Well dear Kevin, I can tell what you read because the justice minister you're talking about was actually discussing democracy. He isn't paving the way to have the sharia imposed on us. IF 2/3 of the Dutch public voted to have the sharia incorporated into the Dutch law system, he said, then this should be done because that's what democracy ultimately means. Nevermind the fact that it's never going to happen. Plus, the sharia of course is totally inconsistent with our constitution, which we can safely say won't be changed to accomodate a such a barbaric law system. Oh and nevermind the fact that he's one of the least popular ministers over here anyway.

With regards to Hirsi Ali, there has been much debate over this. Of course, she wasn't chased away because of what she said, like you seem to think. She got into trouble because of several minor lies she used to get citizenship in my country. The minister of immigration strictly follows one of the strictest immigration laws in the entire world, and lying about personalia in an asylum procedure is often penalized by denying citizenship. Hirsi Ali being an MP made this especially emberrassing. She was free to say whatever the hell she liked about Islam... knowing that most people agree with her anyway; watch the nov 22 elections.
I guess you never heard Ali say she had been planning to go the the US a long time before this ever happened? Being under constant threat, and protection made it impossible for her to act as MP. I think her new job suits her better... perhaps she can one day move mountains in the UN... if it still exists when the time comes. The immigration minister did screw up however, and she's been heavily criticised because of this whole thing.

How much more time must pass before Sherman's tactics are fully implemented?

Of course, she wasn't chased away because of what she said, like you seem to think.

I guess I need to add a question: Why do we keep discussing justifications or lack of them for events long past? The events of today are upon us, so what is the benefit of the anguish over yesterday, on either side. It happened. Learn from it, as most civilized people have done, and move on. Our enemies today have no moral compunctions about obliterating all of us, and we still debate rightousness?

We best be careful, in our posture here, or rigor mortis will set in inevitably.

Thousand Sons:

mealy mouthed apologia and revisionist history

Mealy mouthed? You hurt my feelings. You could have at least put 'blood curdling' in there somehow.

And again...how do you DO that...take over the oil industry?

No doubt it would work in a laboratory setting, but in reality, how would you protect your holdings once taken over?

It is too late. Dithering does that. I think, just my opinion, that the demon is out of the bottle now, and must be excised, extirpated, destroyed.

1.5 billion Muslims or so in the world.

How many of them would it take, in your opinion, to be excised, extirpated, destroyed?

And even if it doesn't disappear competely, its venom will be neutralized for good.

aridog doesn't agree.

Let me also add an addendum to my prior post. I dont bear Germany or its people any ill will today, but back then we were at war and I have no sympathy for any who conduct war against my country.

Yeah indeed. Read her own statements if you like...

Sorry bout that. What else can you expect from a ignorant American cowboy?

I guess you aren't much for flattery, eh?

Sherman wasn't stupid. You'll notice the distinct lack of violent separatism from the American South, these past 150 years. I've always thought that Carthaginian Peace got far too bad a press.

Flattery will get you everywhere!

Why didn't you use it on me, then?

You should know by now that Americans aren't good with diplomacy or consulting our European allies.

Ha, that does it! No German troops in Iraq, then!

Nazis are everywhere.
Everywhere you see a guy punishing a full classroom instead of the naughty pupil. Everywhere a man punishes a group of men instead of one culprit.
In any game you pay you may have a punishment, that's Nazism.

Nazis will alas never die.
Nazism is NOT ONLY hate of Jews, that's the small part but the part people talk the most.
Nazism is in Israel too brought by so many young Russians.
Nazism is nice in Moscow fashion, a new way of life.

Be vigilant, your neighbour was not a communist but maybe he is a Nazi.

Your cat has no idea what an ice cream truck is. It probably just saw a bird.

LMAO!

Chuckie - is that you?

B*gel, Ch*rles... getting hard to tell the two apart anymore.

#178 franco cbi

Your cat has no idea what an ice cream truck is. It probably just saw a bird.

ROFLMAO!!