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That does not excuse America's guilt in the greatest crime in history.
/need I?
Anyone got picks of her naked?
/just kidding.
/sorta.
Anyone got picks of her naked?
/just kidding.
/sorta.
No, but I can dream, too.
If the Israelies are so pure of heart, then how come Lebanese civilian casualities have been so high.
Michelle, you disappoint me. So pretty, yet so narrow-minded...
I take it if a gang of murderers break into your house and kill one of your children and you could strike back, you'd only kill one of them, right? That would be the proportionate response and you'd let the other murderers walk away unharmed, because after all they only killed one of yours and you killed one of theirs in return. So all's well.
"Quit crying, or I will give you something to cry about."
So I wonder a little at the fury directed at Israel while there's not a word of condemnation about Hezbollah hiding among civilians and using civilians as shields in order to launch attacks.
What part of "Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields" do you not understand?
But, war is hell. Can't stand the heat, get out of the shitter.
So I wonder a little at the fury directed at Israel while there's not a word of condemnation about Hezbollah hiding among civilians and using civilians as shields in order to launch attacks.
Vital Perspective has a video up.
What part of "Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields" do you not understand?
Ditto.
In the movie Obsession what made my blood chill was the little children parading through the streets of Beirut dressed as suicide bombers, with masks and (fake?) guns. That parade was from a few years ago but it was only a few days ago that Nasrallah was bragging about how they take them young and teach them to love death. Indeed that's what he has done.
I've mentioned that on my blog. How come in the US when a drunk driver hits a parent and child, if the child is not in a carseat the parent gets charged with criminal negligence; but in the Middle East when terrorists hide behind children the terrorists are not to blame?
If the Israelies are so pure of heart, then how come Lebanese civilian casualities have been so high.
Michelle, you disappoint me. So pretty, yet so narrow-minded...
Cry to those using babies
That's a very good way to put it. I'm stealing it.
And the world sure doesn't seem to care about Israeli civilians getting bombed.
Sorry, world
"Quit crying, or I will give you something to cry about."
Thanks for the enlightened response. You really have changed the way I view the world with your intelligent commentary.
I take it if a gang of murderers break into your house and kill one of your children and you could strike back, you'd only kill one of them, right? That would be the proportionate response and you'd let the other murderers walk away unharmed, because after all they only killed one of yours and you killed one of theirs in return. So all's well.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Would I have a reaction to someone hurting a loved one of mine? Yes. Would hurting that person make my lost loved one come back? No.
That's a personal view and doesn't really apply here.
These are countries that are responsible for millions of lives.
I mean, in no way, to justify Hezbollah's actions. Israel's actions, however, are even worse.
A Hezbolla fighter goes back to his home. That's right, because he's fighting on his soil. At this point in the conflict, with Israel's enormous moblization, he's now fighting for his soil.
Both sides are guilty of attrocities. However, you seem to think it's okay for Israel to commit attrocities while the Lebanese' actions are unforgiveable.
You don't understand them. You don't understand their culture. You don't understand their way of thinking. You only think you understand thost of the Israelies, so you automatically clamber to their sides like sheep.
Your ignorance and petty idealism and violent natures is appalling.
That reminds me - I probably need to get my kids in at the shooting range for some practice. My 14 year old wasn't able to get above sharpshooter on her last M16 qualification, and it's probably about time my 6 year old learns to lock and load.
Your moral compass seems stuck on 'E'.
Awww, that's so romantic. Perhaps he should have stayed on his soil and stop launching rockets onto Israeli soil.
You are aware Israel hasn't occupied any of Lebanon for years when Hezb'Allah crossed the border, killed 8 IDF troops, and kidnapped the other two, no?
So, the Nazis were the good guys in 1945 before the Americans and Russians were occupying German lands?
You forgot something: Hezbollah fighters crossed into Israel's soil to attack and kidnap Israeli soldiers.
Exactly. Lebanon has been asked to disarm Hezbollah for years now and didn't do a thing about it. Aren't Lebanon and Hezbollah responsible for the millions of Lebanese citizens they put at risk?
How moral of you.
Really?
Boo ficking hoo. Maybe they shouldn't have started this war, then.
"Atrocities"? You mean accidental death of civilians who are being held hostage by terrorists is considered an atrocity?
So, you understand their way of thinking? I pity you.
?מה אני, עז
You know why Israelis are on Lebanese soil, right?
Well of course you do. It's because Hezbollah has been launching a jillion rockets onto Israeli soil.
Surely you're not suggesting that Israel doesn't have the right to go after these killers, are you?
Imagine that your job is to defend Isreal and protect her people -- what is your response?
And remember, "I don't know, but Israel's actions are wrong" is not going to cut it.
IsrealIsraelChrist, I don't ever remember screwing that one up before. Sheesh.
If the ....then how come Lebanese civilian casualities have been so high.
First, enough of my neighbors have arrived safely back here in Michigan from southern Lebanon to suggest to me that there is sufficient time between notice and bombing to leave town. They did.
Next, part of the reason is that Israel builds shelters for their people, and reinforces dwellings generally, due to the past several years of persistant shelling by Kaytushas.
Next, body counts are irrelevant. When I enlisted in the Army, 1968, we had 500 dead soldiers coming home per week. So far Lebanon has lost what 400 + total in a month? Please excuse me if I am not grief stricken.
Finally, examine the event that caused this latest expansion of conflict. There was no Israeli bombardment of Lebanon in June. Life was good, tourism was up, the economy beginning to grow. Then, in July, Hizzbollah decided to mount an attack inside Israeli territory, south of the Blue Line. Furhter they decided, again, to shell norhtern Israel with Kaytusha rockets indiscriminately.
When seeking to find someone one to blame, seek first the one who loosed the dogs of war.
One stupid uncalled for aggressive act can activate the law of unintended consequences. It did. That's War.
Class dismissed.
[Please don't insult my intelligence with any Shabaa Farms argument...unless you are much older than me, Shabaa Farms was never Lebanese territy in your lifetime....ask Syria if you don't believe me...they lost it]
Sorry. Here, have a flower...
When I first read that I thought joem had actually cursed. Then I actually got a little worried for Eric, to have pushed joem that far.
We shouldn't expect too much from him though.
I mean, it takes years to undo the brainwashing and indoctrination that students are subjected to by
cultstheir proffs. And besides, critical thinking is just too hard. It's easier to just say, "I deserved that" after the bully hits you and give him 25 cents instead of ten next time.Sorry. Here, have a flower...
Wow, that looks just like my husband did before his eye surgery.
Except for the flower, though. He'd probably be holding a Sig Sauer, not his favorite, but what was issued to him.
Zork, that was from a portion of that post that was meant to be directed at a more general population that looked like a finger pointed at you becaust I formatted poorly. That's my mistake.
It was a reaction to quotes such as:
Which I hear and read almost constantly. Examples of ignorance that people almost take pride in. How can one expect to have one's judgement respected when they celebrate not knowing what they're talking about?
Do you claim to be unaware of the culture of antisemitism among Muslims generally, and Arabs especially and specifically?
Perhaps you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I can't solve the problem and you're right, that doesn't cut it. But can you? (Oh, and kill 'em all isn't an acceptable solution)
In fact, it would be grounds for concern if you suddenly found something I said agreeable.
Do you claim to be unaware of the culture of antisemitism among Muslims generally, and Arabs especially and specifically?
Perhaps you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I don't claim to know everything. I only ask people to consider another reaction besides the seething hatred and irrational violence.
I'm aware of the anti-semitism. I'm aware that much of the modern version stems from the establishment of the Israel state in not-so-friendly soil following World War II.
I'm also aware of the huge anti-Muslim sentiment.
Again, I'm not justifying or condoning Hezbollah's actions. I'm questioning Israel's.
Yes.
Hizballa can:
- Give back the two hostages.
- Stop firing rockets.
I think then Israel would stop.
What Israel is doing is so very far from "kill'em all" that it's laughable.
You go ahead and pretend that that's what they're doing, and keep criticizing them for doing it, if it makes you happy.
In fact, it would be grounds for concern if you suddenly found something I said agreeable.
Congratulations, you managed to put together more than one complete sentence in a row. Pat yourself on the back. You should probably rest though, I know this is hard for you.
Oh Good Lord! "Modern version" *snort*
I would suggest that you are the one with the tenuous grasp of history.
Yes.
Hizballa can:
- Give back the two hostages.
- Stop firing rockets.
I think then Israel would stop.
That's one possible explanation.
Another lies in the upsurge in Islamic fundamentalism, dating back, perhaps, to the founding of the Islamic Brotherhood in 1928 (which you'll notice is before the founding of the modern state of Israel).
You might also want to go do some research in a primary source like the Koran.
Go ahead, just Google Koran (or Quran) + antisemitism, and you'll probably get about a jillion hits suggesting Koranic verses you might want to read up on.
You can also Google Koran + online to find online Koran translations, because you'll probably want to independently verify that these verses are really there, and that it's not just "wingnut" websites yanking your chain.
Where do you live? Do you live in a majority Arab Mulsim neighborhood? [You said "I hear..."] I do. The kids don't play cops and robbers, or cowboys and Indians, they play "Arabs and Jews." Yesterday, after one of their rallies (which they seem to hold for themselves and the media only, always right here at home) as the adults and kids walked home, the littlest kids were chanting "Up with Lebanon, Down with Israel" or "Death to Israel" ....all to the smiles of their parents. Sounds like a bunch of peacemakers to me, right? Especailly since they're safe right here under US protection.
Next...Lebanon....became an independant country in 1943, previously a French manadate, then a Syrian territory. Just what is the great ancestral claim here? The Israelis agreed to and signed accepting the Blue Line in 2000. So did the Lebanese government. So did the UN. Lebanon then prospered and rebuilt.
Who violated the agreement?
It's really foolish to start a war you can't finish, then embarass yourself by running to the world community screaming "unfair" and "atrocity." Trust me, no one really gives a shit.
What would happen if Hezbollah and all the Arab terrorist groups lay down their weapons tomorrow?
What would happen if Israel did?
It's very simple - it takes two sides to make peace, but only one side to make war. That side isn't Israel. But when war is chosen, Israel has an absolute right to defend themselves and do whatever it takes to ensure their survival and safety.
Saudi women would immediately be given drivers' licenses so they could drive the Jews into the sea.
How about rational violence?
Are you good with that?
'Cause we're all about the rational violence.
Joem: I really don't think it's that simple. Because, even if Hezbolla were to stop it all right now and give back the two hostages, there'd be another conflict around the corner from another Islamic extremist faction. (P.S. Not challenging you, but more of a general question... Weren't there three hostages? Didn't an Israeli soldier get taken a couple days or a week before the raid?)
Ed: I'm more confident in my lack of knowledge, which is why I question the one-sided, fundamentalist reactions that this conflict has drawn.
To all: I apologize if I offended with this:
That was 100% emotional and unreasonable. I had something else in mind and it didn't come out nearly as I intended.
"Marines seethe, win."
Sorry. Here, have a flower...
RWC, you do know what the words in your picture say, don't you?
:-D
We'd been trying the latter for two millenia, and eventually decided against it.
How about rational violence?
Are you good with that?
'Cause we're all about the rational violence.
Definately. It's far more effective that way.
RWC, you do know what the words in your picture say, don't you?
:-D
Of course
I mean
Surely you're not suggesting that the source of all this violence is not Israel?
Heavens to Mergatroid!
As airforcewife suggested, if neighboring Muslims stop killing Israelis, then there can be peace.
If not, those neighboring Muslims better be prepared to meet Allah up close and personal like.
It's not Israel's problem yet Israel is expected to deal with this problem and in a fashion that suits the most sensitive Westerners among us.
When Arafat was screaming "Jihad! Jihad! Jihad!" was that the call of an "Islamic extremist faction"? No. He was the leader of the Palestinian people and led them to jihad and Palestinians and Israelis have been paying the price.
On a personal level, do you care about the people who want to murder you and your family more than you care about yourself and your family? You said earlier that I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I'm not really. The analogy stands.
zorkie - I've noticed that whenever an analogy makes sense, someone immediately jumps in with the "apples and oranges" comeback?
Vital Perspective has a video up.
I really do despise sites that run in 1024 X 768.
The stuff is so damn small I can barely see it, even with my new glasses.
Nonetheless, large or small, I am sure this will not be on the MSM.
Israel's perceived innocence exists because she is innocent. Hizbollah attacked. Israel attacked back. Israel is innocent according to international law. Hizbollah uses civilians as human shields. Human shields get killed. Hizbollah is responsible according to international law and justice. End of case. End of story.
So are you implying that because there is always another Islamic extremist maniac ready to commit jihad and shahada that Israel should not fight back at Hizbollah - because basically there's no opint??? What you're asking is for Israel to commit suicide. Well, I don't think so (speaking a very unsuicidal, though perhaps vaguely homicidal at the moment, Israeli).
As for there being 3 hostages, yes, you're right. There was one soldier kidnapped in Gaza, and when Israel went in after him, she got slammed for that just like she's getting slammed for Lebanon.
So what's new? Israel can do no right in the eyes of the world. So stuff the world and we'll do what's necessary for our survival.
Joem: I really don't think it's that simple. Because, even if Hezbolla were to stop it all right now and give back the two hostages, there'd be another conflict around the corner from another Islamic extremist faction. (P.S. Not challenging you, but more of a general question... Weren't there three hostages? Didn't an Israeli soldier get taken a couple days or a week before the raid?)
One soldier is being held by the terrorists in Gaza. I thought we were talking about Lebanon and Hizballa.
As for the "atrocities" - Israel does not target civilians, but rather tries to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible; Hizballa hides behind civilians, and is happy when they are killed. The building in Qana, from which terrorists were firing rockets, didn't collapse until 7-8 hours after it was struck by Israel - meaning that there is a great probability that either either a) Hizballa blew the building up themselves or b) the explosion which caused the building collapse was caused by booby-traps or stored ammunition which was triggered by Hizballa accidentally.
Israel is also expected to care for the enemies civilian population more than her own.
Name me one other country, with the possible exception of the US under certain circumstances, that is expected to apologize for the accidental deaths of enemy civilians, while the enemy is purposely targeting her civilians?
1930s: "Jews Out" - "Jews to Palestine."
Now: "Jews out of Palestine."
Indeed, how can you expect to have your opinion respected when you show absolutely zero knowledge of the situation?
The Jews are stealing oxygen. Stop them!
Revisionist history. The Grand Mufti of Egypt was a favored guest of Herr Hitler during the mid-thirties - before they started up the ovens. While Hitler had no fondness for the Arabs, he did want to join in common cause with them for the erradication of the Jews. There's lots of pictures of them together and even a 'top secret'letter from Herr Hitler to the Mufti.
Have you ever noticed how mass rallies of the Islamofascists 'coincidentally' use the Hitler salute?
Regarding Arab children, they of course are not to blame. Nonetheless, most are steeped in hatred from an early age. You'll surely have seen scores of photographs of tykes wearing mock bomb vests and carrying mock or in some cases, real guns. Moreover, if you're really sincere, you'll take the time to view 'Obsession - Radical Islam's War on the West', available at: http://tinyurl.com/q5nqt
There you'll see a little girl who first says her age, (3 1/2) and then goes on to say that Jews are pigs and monkeys - a lesson she learned according to her own words, from the Koran.
Deny it as you will - fundamentalist Islam is a cult of death and hatred. It must be erradicated for the rest of us to live in peace. Our current world has deep resemblence with the 1930's and the appeasement of Neville Chamberlain
Cottage life is great, and my bed is beside the beer fridge - what more could you want from life?
Oh, oh, oh...joy, and I didn't even have to ask anyone! I have two 24 K rings that are too worn to wear now, due to be recast as a single new signet style ring...and those Hebrew letters are going on it (to replace the "Kay-sicci" on there now in Hangul...means S.O.B., my ex-wife's idea of humor :-)
Cottage life is great, and my bed is beside the beer fridge - what more could you want from life?
That the fridge be full of cold beer :)
Uh, 'scuse me...Max doesn't panic, he surrenders.
Oh, oh, oh...joy, and I didn't even have to ask anyone! I have two 24 K rings that are too worn to wear now, due to be recast as a single new signet style ring...and those Hebrew letters are going on it (to replace the "Kay-sicci" on there now in Hangul...means S.O.B., my ex-wife's idea of humor :-)
That the fridge be full of cold beer :)
Never fear - beer shortages are forbidden in the Beeblebrox household. It is well stocked with a variety of Canadian microbrews, Lowenbrau, Tuborg, Guinness (blech) Perrier and as assortment of white wines. (My refusal to drink French wine is not popular. Wine should always trump politics, according to the parental units.)
I made dinner for them one night, and they asked, "What should we bring?" I replied, "How about drinks?"
By "drinks" they thought I meant "beer". Lots of it. Not a soda in the bunch.
And now goodnight in the annie household, before any little ones wake up... Layla tov to one and all.
I don't claim to know everything. I only ask people to consider another reaction besides the seething hatred and irrational violence.
I'm aware of the anti-semitism. I'm aware that much of the modern version stems from the establishment of the Israel state in not-so-friendly soil following World War II.
I'm also aware of the huge anti-Muslim sentiment.
Again, I'm not justifying or condoning Hezbollah's actions. I'm questioning Israel's.
you had better read up on history. islam has 3 choices for people it encounters: convert, die or live in dhimmitude, a kind of second or third class status. jews and christians lived in dhimmitude in muslim countries since the beginning. muslims were the first to have infidels wear distinctive badges or clothing to show their status, they gave this idea to hitler. read the "politically incorrect guide to islam and the crusades." you can discover that neither the jews nor the christians lived unfettered and unmolested under islam. please educate yourself- it makes for better and more intelligent discourse when the parties are knowledgeable and not just reacting out of "feelings" or misinformation. you could also read "the myth of islamic tolerance".
thank you
That does not excuse America's guilt in the greatest crime in history.
/need I?
You've just revealed to the whole world just how ignorant you are of history. Or of what constitutes a crime. Congratulations.
Spiny Norman's inclusion of "/need I?" means he was being sarcastic.