There's that notable Islamic respect for learning again!
BERLIN - Violence at a Berlin school dominated by Arab and Turkish youths and the nearby slaying of police officer, shot in the head while trying to arrest muggers, has fuelled alarm that troubled parts of the German capital are lurching out of control.
Police have now been brought in to help control the situation at the Ruetli school in the immigrant-dominated Neukoelln district, with six officers checking students for weapons.
Teachers at the school published a letter this week widely interpreted as saying conditions at their school had become so bad that it should be closed down.
The letter said teachers had lost all authority and were now so afraid that they only entered classrooms with a mobile phone so they could call for help in an emergency.
"The mood ... is dominated by aggression, lack of respect and ignorance," said the letter, adding: "We have reached a dead end and there is no way to turn around."
When reporters went to school on Thursday they were pelted with paving stones by masked youths from the schoolyard as the district's mayor stood helplessly at the entrance of the building.
"While sheer chaos dominated behind him, the mayor talked about the failures of the 1968 generation," jeered the Berliner Kurier newspaper.
Teachers complain that over 83 per cent of the 224 children attending the school are foreigners. The biggest group, 35 per cent, are Arab children mainly from Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.
Turks, with 26 per cent, comprise the second largest group at the school.
Germany has about 7.3 million foreigners or 9 per cent of the total population.
A problem in German schools is that especially Arab male students often refuse to respect the authority of women teachers, education sources told Deutsche Presse-Agentur.
Peter Struck, education specialist at the University of Hamburg, was blunt about problems posed by foreign students in German schools which separate children headed for university and those who are not, who get dumped in less-competitive "Hauptschulen."
"It is often Hauptschulen which are hit with difficulties because they have a concentration of problem students and high number of foreigners which means that the boys are often being raised in a home environment which glorifies violence," said Struck in an NDR radio interview.
Students at the Ruetli Hauptschule were not shy about expressing their views to reporters.
"The German (students) brown nose us, pay for things for us and stuff like that, so that we don't smash in their faces," said a foreign student from the school as quoted by the Berliner Kurier.
212 comments, latest by Franco CBI at 3:31 pm 4/9
Is this "the learned, peaceful religion of Islam" that I keep hearing about?
Slightly OT: As I watched news coverage today of the immigration reform protests it struck me that we might be closer to wide spread rioting than we think, but those who advocate wholly unrestricted immigration. The mobs waving Mexican flags didn't exactly sit well with me....what is this, the invasion by the mice that roar?
I loved that book, Aridog. I understand it's also a pretty good movie, which I wouldn't mind seeing.
Yeah, replace Peter Sellars with Vincinte Fox and you could have a re-make.
I would love to see our military react against one of the Mexican incursions into our country. How could anybody complain if we killed their soldiers on American soil -- where they weren't supposed to be? I'm not saying that people wouldn't complain, I just don't think they would have a leg to stand on. The actions of the Mexican military in these cases are tantamount to an invasion. We have a right -- a duty -- to repel them.
Testing....
Especially when they're aiding and abetting drug lords getting dope into our country. Maybe we should send some of our troops across the boarder to punish these criminals! Just like in the olden days.
Matt and TS, ain't gonna happen guys, Bush is a globalist and wants to make the Americas continent into another EU.
And before his second term is out, I bet W will be heaping sickening praise on the UN and speaking favorably of the world court. I think he started out with some degree of independence, but his dad and his dad's old boys have been getting to him on the globalism issues.
Europe has a problem with Moslems.
US has the same problem with negros & latins.
US has the same problem with negros & latins.
Yes, all these "negros & latins" who want to pass sharia law. And you forgot the Asians (or shall we call them "yellow people"), all these Vietnamese and Hmong refugees who are a "problem" too.
FL, your analogy is bullshit. America is a country of immigrants and Europe could learn a thing or two from the US about assimilation.
US has the same problem with negros & latins.
The same problem?
Yes, all these "negros & latins" who want to pass sharia law. And you forgot the Asians (or shall we call them "yellow people"), all these Vietnamese and Hmong refugees who are a "problem" too.
FL, your analogy is bullshit. America is a country of immigrants and Europe could learn a thing or two from the US about assimilation.
So there arent huge social problems in America due to poor ghettoised black & latino youth.
There are no gang raped commited by these youths?
There aren't people who are so poor they have to work two jobs and still cant make ends meet, let alone pay for health care, coz the minimum wage is so low.
Whew! It's a good thing that conditions only apply to blacks and latinos!
As a White Man™, I'm protected against such horrors.
You should also realize that many, if not most, people working for minimum wage are not actually attempting to be self-supporting. There are students, and spouses contributing supplemental income, retirees supplementing their fixed income, etc., etc., etc. These people don't need a living wage, because they're not actually living off of it.
Whew! It's a good thing that conditions only apply to blacks and latinos!
As a White Man™, I'm protected against such horrors.
You should also realize that many, if not most, people working for minimum wage are not actually attempting to be self-supporting. There are students, and spouses contributing supplemental income, retirees supplementing their fixed income, etc., etc., etc. These people don't need a living wage, because they're not actually living off of it.
I never said it was specific to Blacks and Latinos.
US has the same problem with negros & latins.
You are a moron.
And coming from me, that is saying something....
So there arent huge social problems in America due to poor ghettoised black & latino youth.
There are no gang raped commited by these youths?
There aren't people who are so poor they have to work two jobs and still cant make ends meet, let alone pay for health care, coz the minimum wage is so low.
There are gang rapes in the US, as there are everywhere, and a recent one was committed by fraternity kids at Duke University. I would venture to say that most of those kids were white and rich. Shocking, eh?
As far as poor people, I worked two jobs to pay my way through college. I didn't see that as a huge social problem or as a result of my skin tone or accent. I saw my two jobs as giving me the opportunity to finish university and get a graduate degree.
Uh-huh.
With some people, you can't look at what they
saytype - you have to "work out for yourself" what they really mean ..#15 From London
Are you an idiot, or merely disingenuous?
You said it in the context of this:
You are clearly implying that your statement ("There aren't people who are so poor they have to work two jobs and still cant make ends meet, let alone pay for health care, coz the minimum wage is so low.") bears some relationship to the U.S.'s "problem with negros & latins."
You can't just roll out the biatching about minimum wage and other socialist drivel -- you've got to make the arguement that blacks and latinos, specifically, are poor because of the larger U.S.'s "problems" with them. And then you get to talk about institutional racism, and how every white person is inherently racist, even if they don't even know it, and other assorted class warfare talking points wherein every minority group plays "victim" to the Evil White Men (and Jews!) who run the country/world.
Go on, you know you want to. So let's hear it.
From London has the typically ignorant European idea of the U.S., including the stereotypes of a century ago: racism, xenophobia, lynchings, ghettos - in other words all the stuff that Europe has too but politely forgets to mention.
I was talking about this quote!!! Being a generalisation for all the poor.
Th
No I dont. But there are still ghettos in the US.
There is also xenophobia, racism & discrimination in the US but it occurs in every country that has minorities.
From London, are you and Laura having a self-contradiction contest?
Like most Euros with a snotty attitude about the US, you don't understand how relatively unimportant class is over here and you project all kinds of bizarre stuff on us that is not at all applicable...
Oh, and by the way, only pretentious Euro twats use the term 'negro' anymore.
#16 joem
What you said...
#19 zorky
This character is a real snore. The poorest of the poor live better in America than anywhere else in the world. Where else do poor people all have TVs, cars, and access to free public education, a chance to make a life in the military, or in public service, get their education completely paid for by generous donors or individuals at universities? Even the poorest people have running water and electricity and access to public health services. Give me a break. America is the land of opportunity.
But all From London wants to see is those nasty 'ghettos'. BOOOORING.
#26 Thousand Sons
LOL! Wonder what he calls Jooooos?
Maybe what From London is doing at the moment is presenting arguments from a (left) forum and posting them here. And vice versa.
There are ghettos in France. There are ghettos in Greece. There are ghettos everywhere in the world. Poverty + cheap housing = ghettos. Do you think it's a matter of skin colour or a matter of income, FL?
FL's just jealous that most of our "poor" people live in bigger houses than most Europeans...
It was piss take.
What you said...
#19 zorky
This character is a real snore. The poorest of the poor live better in America than anywhere else in the world. Where else do poor people all have TVs, cars, and access to free public education, a chance to make a life in the military, or in public service, get their education completely paid for by generous donors or individuals at universities? Even the poorest people have running water and electricity and access to public health services. Give me a break. America is the land of opportunity.
But all From London wants to see is those nasty 'ghettos'. BOOOORING.
You think all of the poor have cars?
I forgot America is perfect. Of course they do
Free Health care? I thought they just got basic ER.
In Western Europe the poor have access to free education, running water and electricity. In some European countries Uni education is paid for by the govt.
There are ghettos in the US and throughout the World. I dont have a stereotypical negative image of the US. However I dont look at it through rose coloured glasses like some of you seem to.
I guess I should have said North America.
#32 From London
Of course not. But I'm a middle class guy, with a middle class income, and I drive a rusty 17 year old Japanese import. And everytime I drive through crap areas of my city, I am hard goddamned pressed to find a worse-looking car than mine.
If you like, I'll try and take some digital pictures of large American four-door boat cars, parked on the street right outside boarded-up buildings in crappy residential neighborhoods.
Trust me, such photo-ops are not hard to find.
There are no gang raped commited by these youths?
Have you confused yourself with Tutsy or something?
Would you rather have them earning $0 per hour, as half of all minority young adults in France do? Have you ever heard of "Medicare"? Anyway, what is the minimum wage in Europe, in American dollars?
As they do in the USA, u moron.
Education in the Greek universities is paid by the government. This means that not everyone can go to university, since there are very limited numbers of people accepted, and many people whose grades were not in the top 10% have to abandon the idea of a free college education and go to school abroad or not go to university at all. So the university education may be free but it is certainly elitist.
Poor people have access to Medicare, if their income is below a certain level or they're senior citizens, they have free medical care in the U.S. And a much better medical care than they would receive in the socialized systems of Europe.
I'm not saying that the European health care system is necessarily bad. My mom was sick with pneumonia recently, and a full checkup, EKG, X-rays, blood tests and medicines cost her about €25 in Greece. I think a senior citizen or a poor person with the same problem, would pay about the same amount here.
But that is not my point. My point is that when our Greek politicians and celebrities and rich people get seriously sick, they don't go to Greek hospitals or French hospitals. They come to the U.S. for treatment.
Why do you think that is, FL?
Riiiight.
I guess your dry English wit was lost on me, Oscar Wilde.
From London, just admit you haven't the faintest clue about the poor in America, save what the
Bureau of TruthBBC tells you. I think even you might have an inkling that they are a little biased against the US.I've spent a fair amount of time in the projects and I can say pretty confidently that poverty in America isn't financial. Poverty is people who haven't learned to take care of themselves and be independently self sustaining. There were no doubt some good reasons for welfare programs in the past, but the crux of the problem of a lack of basic survival skills (sometimes including ethics).
There is so much opportunity here for anyone who is willing to work. The one catch is that the model can break down in single parent families, but it isn't PC to state the obvious fact that families are not supposed to have one parent.
Speaking of American "ghettos", here's how immigrants live in France
BTW
Che GuevaraFrom London:If Sweden were an American State, do you know where it's per capita income would rank?
Dead last.
If I believed what I read and saw on TV, I'd think that America was crawling with such situations.
I actually don't see many of them. The ones I do see (and at one time we were so poor hubby SOLD HIS PLASMA!) are usually temporary.
Which reminds me - today in the Burlington County Times, there was an editorial about what a disgrace Bill Frist is for introducing a flag burning amendment when millions of American children go to bed hungry.
I thought we had an epidemic youth obesity problem.
Seeing as how I know what the study was that gave rise to this - I'll tell you how they came upon that number. They ASKED kids if they were hungry when they went to bed.
As in, "I wanted another Twinkie, but my mom said NO!"
And yet, much like the stats quoted above, it's accepted common knowledge that millions of children in the US go to bed hungry.
#37 zorky
Yup-and why do we think Arafart went to a French hospital? Because they have the best veterinary medicine in all of Eurabia.
Papijoe:
Exactly.
Che GuevaraFrom London:If Sweden were an American State, do you know where it's per capita income would rank?
Dead last.
And three other European countries are above the US. Despite Europe having 64 million immigrants, while the US only having 44.5 million.
As usual, your "facts" don't stand up under feather light scrutiny.
of aliens are leeching off this country illegally.
That's something I could get behind.
There is so much opportunity here for anyone who is willing to work. The one catch is that the model can break down in single parent families, but it isn't PC to state the obvious fact that families are not supposed to have one parent.
Again this is the same in most Western Countries.
As for France it is so reactionary and backward it is probably beyond help.
Again this is the same in most Western Countries.
Except there isn't the same amount of opportunity.
What is the same is the nanny state locking generations out of upward mobility
Except there isn't the same amount of opportunity.
What is the same is the nanny state locking generations out of upward mobility
Of course not.
Only America gives the opportunities.......... there are no rich immigrants anywhere else.
I live in a beauracratical European Nanny Superstate.
Please HELPPPPPPP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
From London-setting your sarcasm aside, our immigrants have a lot more opportunity than yours do, and the outcomes they achieve are on average a lot higher than the outcomes your immigrants achieve.
Of course not.
Only America gives the opportunities.......... there are no rich immigrants anywhere else.
I live in a beauracratical European Nanny Superstate.
Please HELPPPPPPP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
OK, but you know you are going to actually have to work, aight?
Nightwatch # 45...
Excuse me? You counting only those arriving last week or something? The United States, with the exception of "Native Americans" who arrived two milleniums ago, is composed entirely of immigrants and their descendants. There is nothing remotely comparable in Europe.
On top of that, we have between 12 and 20 million that aren't even documented.
Symbolic of the above phenomena, tell me how customary it is for Algerians, Africans, Chinese, et al to be called Frenchmen, Germans, Englishmen, Swedes, etc., even when "Native" born by 2 or more generations?
Your take on this particlar thread drift is not merely distorted, it is totally spurious. Seems unlike you. There is no comparison, whether positive or negative. What's up...Max get on your last nerve or something?
How to lie with statistics, part II: amount of foreign aid in 2005.
Top 6 donors
The US pissed away 27.4 billion dollars.
Japan pissed away 13.1
The UK pissed away 10.7
France pissed away 10 (probably stolen EU money)
Germany pissed away 9.9
The Netherlands pissed away 5.1
Holland is the size of a small New England state, yet the 50 United States piss away only 5 times, not 50 times, as much as the silly Dutch.
UK+France+Germany+Holland (a subset of Europe) piss away more aid than the US, while they suffer from a larger invasion of at most useless immigrants than the US.
The only countries to exceed the United Nations target for ODA of 0.7% of GNI were, as for some years now, Denmark, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.
Note in particular the absence of all Latin European countries (half Belgium, France, Portugal, Spain and Italy) and all G7 countries (the US, the UK, Germany, Japan, France, Italy and Canada).
Right, M-Max?
And three other European countries are above the US. Despite Europe having 64 million immigrants, while the US only having 44.5 million.
As usual, your "facts" don't stand up under feather light scrutiny.
I have a feeling that counts a lot of British people living in France, Poles in Germany, Spaniards in Ireland, French in Italy, and so on. What's the external component of European immigrants? If you wanted to count Americans who move to a different state as "immigrants", we'd ALL be immigrants. And I doubt 64 million of 400 million Europeans are really from outside Europe.
You're not accounting for the composition of US aid. We don't do everything through our government. Our private-sector (non-governmental) foreign aid dwarfs our own government's and all Europe's governments combined.
By that standard, all of the African-Americans outside the South would be immigrants.
The multiple of private foreign aid from US citizens to official foreign aid from our government is 3.5x.
Actually, blacks have been net immigrants to the economically vibrant Southern states, from the decrepit and declining industrial North, for about two decades now.
If you want to just count those who emigrateed in their lifetime, okay, and then each US "state" as a Euro state equivalancy, tell me how many European contries, ne "states" have extra European foreign born Heads of State? Michigan and California do here, and there are likely more...those two are just what I recall off the top of my head?
Jumping Jesus on Pogo Stick, this drift is whack.
solus @ 46:
yep. Except that I hate it when people try to pad their own facts by stating things that are entirely wrong. Like the millions of hungry kids thing.
Quite frankly, a flag burning amendment isn't even on my list of "maybe someday" items, much less do I think that it is terrifically important right now.
ev -
we're just nicer. That's why we give so much aid.
I mean that in all seriousness, too. It's been my experience that those who talk about how much they do usually talk so much to cover up the fact that they're all fart and no sh**.
Geez, what kind of a prefix would immigrant have when applied to my constant-state-of-flux family then?
serial immigrants?
Nominated for RT? :-D
I seriously hate Bill Frist. More than I hate John McCain, I hate Bill Frist. I hate the sonofabitch! I can't believe the goddamn wanker introduced yet another flag-burning amendment. His naked ambition to be President is really unbecoming.
Nominated for RT? :-D
Nominated for RT? :-D
LOL, I like that, I'll add it :-)
I knew ari would like that one.
Geez, what kind of a prefix would immigrant have when applied to my constant-state-of-flux family then?
serial immigrants?
"Otherigrants?"
"Miximashigrants?"
Here I sit brokenhearted,
Came to shit, but only farted.
:-D
LOL!!
The one my daughter could use to account for her Irish, Korean, Norman-English, Polynesian, Japanese, et al polyglot pedigree over the past 100 years.
But, she prefers "American."
Mongrelian-American. Or Mutty-American.
Heinz57igrants.
Excuse me? You counting only those arriving last week or something?
Obviously I'm speaking of a recent period, but I couldn't be arsed to look it up.
But since you pester me about it, instead of googling yourself, here it is, in all its magnificent glory.
To summarize, it's about the 1990-2005 period.
NEVER!
I prefer "mutt-American". Or, in order to move away from the undeserved bad reputation... "Shar-Pei American..."
I always claim "All-American Mutt"
Lyana, hubby refuses to use "Russian" in his nationality description.
He and his mother got into a HUGE fight over it when she told him to do something "all Russian boys do" (can't remember what) and he said, "I'm AMERICAN."
To this day, he describes himself as an American "born in Russia."
Which makes my kids... Americans of mutt extraction.
afw, the most recent immigrant I know of in my family came in the 1820's - we've been here for a long time. I have a vague idea where some of them came from, but for the most part, no clue. From skin tone and facial features I can guess, but who knows?
I don't think I'd ever thought about being anything other than American...
1/8 of my family came here before 1776. The rest came between 1869 and 1890.
Most of my family came here between 1890-1900 with my Grandmother arriving later in 1912. I do have one relative that was in Pennsylvania in the late 18th century, but I don't remember where he fits into the family tree, story goes that he was a Hessian that fought for the British during the Revolution and somehow stayed behind after the war.
That's the way I describe myself as well (except I wasn't born in Russia).
Many of them did (one links said about 6,000 out of the 30,000 who came )- they just assimilated into the large German communities that existed at the time...
Many of them did (one links said about 6,000 out of the 30,000 who came )- they just assimilated into the large German communities that existed at the time...
Linky
Thanks. :)
On my side, both sides of my family came from Appalachia most recently (thus the HeeHaw names prevalent on my side), and before that on my Dad's side they migrated from New Jersey down to Virginia sometime right after the Revolution.
We have muster records for them, and I found lots of cousins and many-times great-grandpa at Valley Forge when we visited there last summer.
That was pretty cool.
But it's also very irritating when they get into "genealogy talk" on the holidays. Hubby's family had quite a history in Russia before coming over, but he stresses that what THEY did has nothing to do with HIM, since he had no control over it. Thus he gets a wee bit uncomfortable.
My Dad likes to point out all the famous Russian people with hubby's last name. Hubby says it means nothing, as basically our last name is "Jones" in Russian. (no, not "Joneskeyavskii," either)
"Да, русским лучше; взять хоть Иванова:
звучит как баба в каждом падеже".
--Иосиф Бродский, 20 сонетов к Марии Стюарт.
That's the way I describe myself as well (except I wasn't born in Russia).
Darn close to me. 1/4 (Irish) here before 1776, fighting in the French & Indian War, serving in the Provincial Congress during the Revolutionary War, and the Civil War (15th New York Cavalry), the rest between 1870 and 1890 (Irish 1/2, Norman English 1/4 (the rotter allegedy stowed away in a barrel..but I suspect that's family myth.
Delights my perverse sense of humor no end that my daughter, a poly glot of Irish, Oriental and Polynesian, is technically elegible for DAR memebership.
As opposed to the high-life?
OMG, packen, have you been talking to my MIL?
Greeks used to be this way about Athens until very recently, there was Athens and the rest was "eparhia" and anyone not born in Athens was "eparhiotis" which was the closest thing to calling someone a "peasant" without being insulting.
But about ten years ago they discovered Salonica, dammit, all of a sudden Athenians realised there's a city to the north, it's much more beautiful than Athens, it has no smog, it has beaches you can actually swim in, and it has the best food in all of Greece and Western Turkey. They haven't left us alone since.
The city I was born in is five times older than СПб (and almost twice as old as Moscow). So there.
OMG, packen, have you been talking to my MIL?
Some years ago my sister and I spent some time at a Russian resort on Cape Cod. There was a sixtyish gentleman there who prefaced every phrase that ever came out of his mouth--I swear, it was like a nervous tic--with:
А вот мы--из Ленинграда....
Well, we are from Leningrad... isn't the weather just glorious today?
Well, we are from Leningrad... what's for dinner tonight?
packen, LMAO!!
Xaxa.
Where are you from, if it's not a secret?
That may be so. But there is still a huge group of poor disenfranchised youth who have no future in the US.
You may laugh but I have gotten a lot of understanding of black and latino youth through early 90s Hip Hop music .
Like it or not this music is a social commentary of poor black males and the obsticales they have faced living in America - a country they nearly all universally despise.
What reason can you give me for rappers to hate a country that you say gives them unlimited opportunities?
Oh, wait... it must be Kiev.
After these rappers got filthy rich - by rapping to an audience that was largely white males btw - they didn't leave America that they supposedly hated so much, they're still around - the ones who are still alive.
I actually remember them looking like that.
packen - YOU MUST HAVE MET HER IN MALE CLOTHING!
After stroke #4, she decided to use a lot of her money to go to a "special spa" that was absolutely positive to cure her because it was in Eastern Europe.
A cult of victimization which has turned into an industry that tells them that the reason they are not succeeding legitimately is because of racism... despite the fact that many, many, MANY blacks and other minorities do succeed. When they WORK at it.
Look at Cynthia McKinney, fergawdsake! Alan Colmes' lame protestations aside - we know damn well that she slugged a cop, and did so because he merely did his job in asking for her ID.
Now she's crying racism and went out to get all the usual suspects to cry racism with her.
It's easier to sit back and be supported for being a victim than it is to admit there's something wrong with the way you are living your life in the first place; and those who would rather be victims than succeed will take her buck passing as yet another example of being held down by "the MAN."
From London, I see you too still have a lot of obsticales to overcome...
I actually remember them looking like that.
Idirt.Hanging out with all the Russian people on bloggie has put me in the mood to re-read Michael Strogoff. (Not exactly literature, but one of my favourite books when I was little :-)
I think it's funny that Verne was best known for his sci-fi books, I think Strogoff was his best.
After these rappers got filthy rich - by rapping to an audience that was largely white males btw - they didn't leave America that they supposedly hated so much, they're still around - the ones who are still alive.
alot of the artists i listen to never had any commercial success.
Did you know that Verne was the first to come up with the concept of the fax machine? The manuscript for the story was rejected by his publisher as being 'too unbelievable'.
alot of the artists i listen to never had any commercial success.
If they made a cd, someone gave them money for their angst.
TS, no I didn't know, that's pretty cool.
Seriously though, I've lived with 'black and latino youth'. I dont think you can really have an understanding just from listening to hip-hop.
Sorry, but you're so full of bullshit that it's not funny.
Like Thousand Sons and many if not most americans, I've actually lived with African- and Hispanic-Americans. The high school which I attended, the office where I currently work, and the area where I live all have a goodly proportion of both groups. And my significant other is in the latter category.
Why am I not the least bit surprised?
I wonder if he realizes that Vanilla Ice is a white dude?
Idirt.Heh. They were "реставрированы" (yeah, right) in 1982.
Seeing THIS...
Always makes me think of THIS.
And I'm an expert on the prehistoric era from watching The Flintstones.
Meg, LMAO!!!
Sorry, but you're so full of bullshit that it's not funny.
Like Thousand Sons and many if not most americans, I've actually lived with African- and Hispanic-Americans. The high school which I attended, the office where I currently work, and the area where I live all have a goodly proportion of both groups. And my significant other is in the latter category.
Why am I not the least bit surprised?
So what. I've got plenty of black friends.
A mate of mine has a uni degree in IT and plenty of years ezperience doing hardware and he still cant get a well paid job in the private sector.
In the UK it all depends on what sector you work in. Government, local govt, unis & schools etc have a high proportion of blacks. In the private sector there are plenty of asians (Indians & Pakistanis) but virtually no blacks.
Imagine going to an interview knowing as soon as they see an young black male they 90% of them are gonna disqualify him from the job. Maybe it is different in the in the good ol' US of A but I doubt it.
And I'm an expert on the prehistoric era from watching The Flintstones.
You clearly do not realise how much social & political commentary there is in Rap music:
KRS ONE - The Racist
But please, just keep living in your fantasy World that discrimination is a thing of the past and the only reason blacks dont succeed is because of their self-victim status and welfare.
Idirt.Bite your tongue!! Senior citizen's are oppressed enough, without such overt prejudice and ageism. We are going to start buring cars in the suburbs if you aren't careful! We may illegally enter Mexico and march en mass waving the Stars and Stripes, demanding our rights as illegal immigrants...at the very least, free government furnished "Simply Silver" shampoo!
No one is claiming that the USA is free from discrimination. However, I'm willing to wager that the number of employers in the USA who would "automatically disqualify" a young black male is somewhat lower than 90%.
Sounds like you've got plenty of racism in your own country. Maybe you should take care of that before you start fantasizing about the USA's alleged problems.
Keep pulling numbers out of your head, FL.
In American universities there's this thing called "affirmative action" and it ensures employment and educational opportunities for under-represented minorities. In California there's a program offering university education to children of migrant workers, kids whose high-school education has fallen by the wayside as they often have to help their families with the crops, and some of these kids enter university hardly able to speak English.
I'm sure you have programs like that in the U.K., don't you? You have university administrators trotting through fields and farms to offer free university education to the children of the poorest of the poor, right?
You're right, that is a fantasy world. The real reason is that Blacks simply aren't compatible with a Western techno-capitalist society, because White people have created a system that rewards abilities and competencies that they are good at, which isn't necessarily the same set of things that Blacks are good at. Blacks need to separate into their own nations, and follow their own independent destiny living according to their own values. Blacks will never achieve parity with Whites in a White-dominated society unless Whites essentially dismantle their society (a la Zimbabwe) or change it out of recognition to accomodate them, which isn't something we should be obliged to do.
Keep pulling numbers out of your head, FL.
In American universities there's this thing called "affirmative action" and it ensures employment and educational opportunities for under-represented minorities. In California there's a program offering university education to children of migrant workers, kids whose high-school education has fallen by the wayside as they often have to help their families with the crops, and some of these kids enter university hardly able to speak English.
I'm sure you have programs like that in the U.K., don't you? You have university administrators trotting through fields and farms to offer free university education to the children of the poorest of the poor, right?
Yup. I was talking about employement in the private sector.
Is your "yup" an answer to this question? If so, I think you're wrong.
I don't know what you call private sector, as I told you, California has affirmative action. Any business with over a certain number of employees, has an affirmative action program for underrepresented minorities. Not to mention that it's against the law to not hire someone on the basis of their gender, race, religion or sexual preference. I've never worked *anywhere* in the U.S. where the workplace wasn't ethnically mixed, Latinos, Blacks, Asians, you name it.
As Americans, we all tell you how life is here as we live it, a different experience for all of us. A lot of us are immigrants here, others are native born, we all come from different backgrounds, different religions, different societies yet we all seem to basically agree that life here is pretty damn good.You however, feel free to base your "knowledge" about America on whatever songs you prefer.
zorkie, I'm pretty sure I saw him pulling the numbers out of another place.
LOL!!
The govenrment gives grants to low income families to help them through Uni. This applies to any lower income student who wishes to apply. They do not pay any fees for uni.
Blair wants get around 50% of school leavers into uni. This means that unis now have very low quality degrees that are very easy to get.
When I went to uni and I come from a very wealthy family I had to pay full uni fees of a £1000 a year the rest of my fees were subsidised by our socialist govt.
Same in the UK and probably rest of Europe.
Doesnt mean shit really coz its virtually impossible for some guy who went to an interview, gets rejected and then turn around and say I didnt get the job coz Im black.
The UK has a similar scheme for public sector workers. i.e. people who work for the govt e.g. councils, police, hospitals. I am not sure if it applies to the private sector. Ill check this out. But it would probably be unenforceable.
Blacks simply aren't compatible with a Western techno-capitalist society, because White people have created a system that rewards abilities and competencies that they are good at, which isn't necessarily the same set of things that Blacks are good at. Blacks need to separate into their own nations, and follow their own independent destiny living according to their own values. Blacks will never achieve parity with Whites in a White-dominated society unless Whites essentially dismantle their society (a la Zimbabwe) or change it out of recognition to accomodate them, which isn't something we should be obliged to do.
African-American CEOs of major corporations:
Black Enterprise, January 11 2005
"Ann Fudge" sounds like a character in a John Waters movie. :)
You're not answering my question: I asked you if university administrators in the UK trot through fields and farms to offer free university education to the children of migrant workers who are often here illegally and who have no resources to state aid. Does the UK have programs like MEChA? You said "yup" and gave as an example something totally different:
We have the same grants here, anyone can go to university no matter whether they have money or not. There are federal grants and state grants and private scholarships everywhere. I doubt that the UK puts more effort into educating the poor than the U.S. does. Anyone can go to college here and not only that, but universities make a special effort to recruit minorities and offer them a free education.
I'm still amazed that you admitted you base your knowledge about America on hip-hop. I mean, really. At least you were honest about it, so good for you, but you must admit it's not exactly a valid basis.
See following quote:
Not to mention various celebrities, politicians, and rich people in general.
I assume you're talking about the situation in Europe, not America?
In America the opposite often happens - minority applicants and employees have successfully sued for "discrimination" in hiring, firing, and other personnel decisions, when in reality the decisions were based on other factors.
FWIW, there have been African-Americans scattered up and down the heirarchy at every big company where I have worked, although more towards the bottom. Currently, my partners (both of whom FL would call "Asians") and I from time-to-time discuss how much cash we would need to pull a particular African-American guy away from his company (and we always conclude it is more than we can afford) -- I think the residual racism in the United States is much overstated.
Oh come on. Whitey, please!
If you havin' world problems, I feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but this blog ain't one!
Hit me!
I assume you're talking about the situation in Europe, not America?
In America the opposite often happens - minority applicants and employees have successfully sued for "discrimination" in hiring, firing, and other personnel decisions, when in reality the decisions were based on other factors.
It happens here with firing. I have heard of a black woman who has taken around a 40% sick leave in a 5 years working as a receptionist for a Uni and they cant get rid of her coz she plays the race card.
As for hiring its virtually impossible to prove. I suppose it is a lot easier to sue in the US.
Oh come on. Whitey, please!
If you havin' world problems, I feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but this blog ain't one!
Hit me!
I advise you to put aside your prejudice of Rap music being about gangstas and look at the link I provided earlier.
I don't know if the numbers I quoted are government only. You seem to know they are. Otherwise your following statement would be false.
Let's assume you're right. Then you add private sector money to the American side without doing the same for the European side. That's comparing apples to oranges.
Here's one datapoint for which I could find Dutch private contributions: the Tsunami disaster.
America: government 950, private 1875, total 2825
Holland: government 300.5, private 208.6, total 509.1
Very roughly only a factor 6 difference, instead of a factor 50.
The same order of magnitude difference as my previous numbers.
Is this datapoint typical? I haven't the faintest idea. I couldn't care less. My point being that, except for some disaster relief, giving development aid is a very bad idea: it destroys the local economy, it kills incentives to do better, it enhances corruption and crime. Last but not least, it pisses away tax payers money to create walking disasters such as Jan Pronk, other UN parasites and a world wide NGO industry.
We should strengthen West-Berlins, not keep East-Berlins running.
NW -- The U.S. also sent a carrier task force which provided the only drinking water to a huge bunch of people. The cost of this was enormous, but does not show up in the aid figures. Apparently this carrier task force is responsible for the rise in American popularity in Indonesia and (at least partially) for the plummeting in popularity of Osama.
I advise you to put aside your prejudice of Rap music being about gangstas and look at the link I provided earlier.
My prejudices about rap music?? Boy, I listen to a lot of rap music. A lot. And as I said before, unlike you, I've actually rolled in American black and Latino culture. I know a lot more about it than any damn song you might listen to. I'm not about to be lectured to by some white boy from England about my own country or culture. I listen to the Smiths too...does that make me an expert about British society? Is there a panic on the streets of London? Dublin? Dundee? Humberside??
Give me a break. Yeah, there may be aspects of American culture rappers dont like, maybe even hate, but to go so far as to say they 'universally despise' this country? Thats nonsense! 'Dont believe the hype' like Public Enemy said. If blacks hate America so much...why are there so many in the military? Why would they work so hard, and sacrifice, to protect a nation they hate?
Bah, whatever. Who am I to shatter your illusions? Go put on some Tupac and feel morally superior to the rest of us. Asalaam aleikum, my brother man. Dont let the white man get you down! Fight the power!
LMAO, TS!
BTW- from what I've seen, you don't just listen to the Smiths... you're fluent in the Smiths : )
Thousand Sons
I dont listen to 2pac.
I never said I was an expert. What I said is that Rap gives me an ideaof the mindset of young black males in the US.
I never said blacks despise their country. I said most rappers do.
I dont listen to 2pac.
I never said I was an expert. What I said is that Rap gives me an idea of the mindset of young black males in the US.
I never said blacks despise their country. I said most rappers do.
*scroll, scroll, scroll* Ah, here we go...
That may be so. But there is still a huge group of poor disenfranchised youth who have no future in the US.
You may laugh but I have gotten a lot of understanding of black and latino youth through early 90s Hip Hop music .
Like it or not this music is a social commentary of poor black males and the obsticales they have faced living in America - a country they nearly all universally despise.
What reason can you give me for rappers to hate a country that you say gives them unlimited opportunities?
Since when does "a lot of understanding" = "an idea of" ?
As for...
That doesn't quite sound like...
Basically, listening to rap gives you an understanding of what rappers think.
From London's typical MO is to throw out some stupid comment, then spend the rest of the thread saying we've misinterpreted him and that wasn't what he said at all.
I don't mind debating over honest differences of opinion, but I can't be bothered to humour this weasly behaviour.
Since we are on the subject of rappers, check this guy out: Y-Love. Also check his bio.
packen, that's wild.
Maybe you should...
Read the lyrics. He wasnt laying the plight of blacks all on the white man.
Here's your homework: Instead of basing your opinions on rap, try talking to a young black male in the US and asking him his mindset.
It might be educational.
And eye opening.
Whatever it is that he does...
Packen -
On this thread, you should change your nick to "2Packen". :)
Speaking of what ev does--is something wrong with Opera? I posted the above comment from Opera [because I always listen to ev] and got this message:
Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /var/www/servers/discardedlies.com/entry.php on line 316
but it seems to be OK in Yahoo. What's up with that?
On this thread, you should change your nick to "2Packen". :)
Whatever it is that he does...
On this thread, you should change your nick to "2Packen". :)
Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /var/www/servers/discardedlies.com/entry.php on line 316
but it seems to be OK in Yahoo. What's up with that?
I was doing a bit of code, sorry 2packs :-)
Sure they do. Let's see, America, where blacks comprise maybe 15% of the populaiton, where, despite that, they become millionaires "rappin" to whitey, who buys their CD's, and even immitate them, keepin' it real! Doesn't everybody wear big bling, huge gaff pendants and chains? Sure they do.
Social commentary? Right. It's called "entertainment" fool, check it out. Want orignal social "rap" try the Blues and early Jazz. Flethcer Henderson never got to stay in the hotels he entertained in, and you think these guys today have a bitch?
Shit, I can't afford a 3 lb platinum neck chain with diamond name pendant....guess I am oppressed. Maybe I should go riot and burn some cars. Or go wave a gun around in public to get some ink, like Puffy or Eminem, 'casue jail actually sucks. Keepin it real is cool, so long as you stay rightous...and out of jail. Sug seems to be a slow learner on that point.
Shouldn't that be 2packN? And the there's this sad news...
I'm going to let Carlos Mencia field this question, eh?
Go here and click on the "Kanye West" button.
I wish I knew how to get to it directly, but I promise it's the best answer to this whole discussion that there is.
Noooooooooo!
Carlos Mencia is funny, except I can't watch him. I can't get past how he's always yelling. I don't like that.
It would be kinda fun if we made a list of every thead with more than 100 comments, and compare the original subject with what people wind up talking about at the end.
Just watched the music video. ROFL!!
Look at the bigger picture Frank, not the exceptions to the rule.
DMoT-is it still a rule when there are that many exceptions?
Of course it is, ev. Just because it's a "rule" doesn't mean people follow it.
btw: I've been singing the chorus to Mencia's song for the last week.
On this thread, you should change your nick to "2Packen". :)
LOL!
I hope that 2Packen doesn't get rolled by Notorious B.I.G.e.l.
It's a worrying trend
LOL!
I hope that 2Packen doesn't get rolled by Notorious B.I.G.e.l.
LOL!!
And then there's CBA, Straight Outta Win'peg...
It's a worrying trend
Yes, it is.
Disturbing, but what's also disturbing is that, while the article includes numerous statistics expressed as a proportion of African-American men who are high-school dropouts or did not go to college, nowhere in the article is there an actual number given for the percentage of african-american men who are high-school dropouts. Nor does the article say if this number has gone up or down in the past 16 years.
2packN sez ~
Blaaaaaggie, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet Blaaaaggie, place no one above ya
Sweeeet Blaaaaggie, don't cha know we luv ya
pour out some cognac and I remenise
cause through tha foggie, I can always depend on my bloggie
and when it seems that i'm hopeless
you type tha words that can get me back in focus
when I wuz sick as a little kid
ta keep me happy theres no limit to tha things ya did
and all my bloghood memories
are full of all tha sweet things ya did for me
and even though I act laaaazy
I got out some GA posts cuz ya maaaade me
There are no words that can express how I feel
Ya never blocked my email, always stayed real
and I appreciate how ya raised me
and all tha stinky cheese that ya gave me...
He's been out for 6 months and hasn't bothered to look for work yet, but will sometime in the future???
I would have tremendous sympathy if he was looking and couldn't find a job because of his record. Especially if it was 6 months down the line and nothing had panned out and he'd still managed to stay clean irregardless.
Blaaaaaggie, don't cha know we luv ya
Sweeeet Blaaaaggie, place no one above ya
Sweeeet Blaaaaggie, don't cha know we luv ya
pour out some cognac and I remenise
cause through tha foggie, I can always depend on my bloggie
and when it seems that i'm hopeless
you type tha words that can get me back in focus
when I wuz sick as a little kid
ta keep me happy theres no limit to tha things ya did
and all my bloghood memories
are full of all tha sweet things ya did for me
and even though I act laaaazy
I got out some GA posts cuz ya maaaade me
There are no words that can express how I feel
Ya never blocked my email, always stayed real
and I appreciate how ya raised me
and all tha stinky cheese that ya gave me...
It's a worrying trend
They don't include that for whites or Hispanics either. So What?
The issue is who is *unemployable.* Then, why?
evariste be jammin mon
LOL! It's hard not to steal that one, Fay :-)
They don't include that for whites or Hispanics either. So What?
The issue is who is *unemployable.* Then, why?
Couldn't find the Dean/Kitten photo, sadly.
*scroll, scroll, scroll* Ah, here we go...
Since when does "a lot of understanding" = "an idea of" ?
All right if I add 'good' so 'a good idea' perhaps its synonym to 'a lot of understanding'? Dont see any similarity to the 2 phrases?
That may be so. But there is still a huge group of poor disenfranchised youth who have no future in the US.
You may laugh but I have gotten a lot of understanding of black and latino youth through early 90s Hip Hop music .
Like it or not this music is a social commentary of poor black males and the obsticales they have faced living in America - a country they nearly all universally despise.
What reason can you give me for rappers to hate a country that you say gives them unlimited opportunities?
AM42 read my entire post. The next line makes it clear that I am refering to rappers.
CBA
I have said the same basic point throughout this thread.
Do something useful like correct my grammar.
If your to reactionary to accept anything but the status quo of DL and dont want to hear an opposing view then I suggest you completely ignore my posts.
Its not my fault if some of you here here have a stereotypical view of rap as being about bitches, guns & bling even after I have explained about 3 times throughout this thread that there are many other aspects to the Hip Hop sub-culture.
As none of you listen, think I wank off to 2pac 10 year old corpse (I havent listen to a 2pac song for about 5 years), mock about the lack of social commentary in some bullshit 50cent song that talks about guns, hoes & murder. As punishment I will be putting in the Linkpotamous a different Hip Hop song every week that challenges the stereotype of rap.
I'm sorry it has come to this that I must expose you to such a vile sub-culture.
Heres one for free:
Main Source -Friendly Game of Baseball
My basic points of this thread:
Hip Hop is a social commentary and gives a 'good insight' into young black mens mindset in the good ol' US of A.
That there are many poor people in the US and they dont have such a great life.
That young black/white/muslim disenfranchised males tend to behave in similar ways. Often Committing violent crimes such as murder, rape and assault.
Hip Hop is a social commentary and gives a 'good insight' into young black mens mindset in the good ol' US of A.
That there are many poor people in the US and they dont have such a great life.
That young black/white/muslim disenfranchised males tend to behave in similar ways. Often Committing violent crimes such as murder, rape and assault.
Come on, Hip Hop and Rap are entertainment, supported by whitey. Did the Motown sound give you similar insights?
Yes, there are many poor people in America...the objection is not to that claim, it is the comparison with elsewhere, as if elsewhere is superior, an idea unsupported by immigration figures alone. The solution to a problem is not to look at your neighbor and presume your problem isn't as bad becasue his seems worse. Look to yourself.
Okay, so there's disenfranchisement. Often that leads to improvement, not just crime. Crime is a problem, race is only a feature of it. With rare exception, serial killers are white. Disenfranchisement cause that?
And...you did NOT answer my question about "naturalized" non-Europeans...are they refered to as French, English, German, etc.? Enquiring minds want to know.
a lot of understanding
becomes
an idea of
becomes
a 'good insight'
I notice you used quotes on that last one so that later you can say that you didn't really mean good insight, you mean something similar to good insight.
BTW- there's a lot of social & political commentary in the New York Times, but that doesn't mean it's true or accurate.
LOL, cba IS the status quo of DL. Besides, "reactionary" is probably not the word you wanted to use.
Yeah, it's high time someone taught us the intricacies of our own culture, because, you know, we don't live in reality, we only live in the status quo of DL.
RTs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ooo. FL is going to 'punish' us.
I think I'll just continue to his ignore his posts.
I know a lot about black culture; I watched The Cosby Show.
LOL!
The blacks I know aren't like Snoop Dog or 50 Cent, or Lord have mercy, Puffy, or anything they portray in their entertainment routines for white sub-urbanite kiddies.
Most are just like me, go to work, come home, raise kids, go to ball games, piss and moan about politics, then go back to work. How come those people never make the headlines or the illuminatti social commentary?
Sure, there are criminals, and most around here are black...Duh...Detroit is 80% black. Now THEY do make the news. Wonder why that is?
Interestingly, Hip Hop/ Rap sells the most among those incredibly disenfranchised middle class white boys in middle America.
You know, those kids who live in the small towns, and think they live a dull and boring life, who have somehow been convinced that drugs, murder and misogyny are cool.
As to unlimimted opportunity? In how many societies would talentless chanting, filthy lyrics, melody-free "songs" and the "gangsta" life style lead to such wealth?
Remember, they call it "rap" because inner-city schools are so poor they can't teach the kids that it is spelled with a "C" as the first letter.
FL, there are alot of poor people here that are content and don't feel entitled. Alot of what you do either helps or hinders your life..not everything, but alot.
As for hip-hop, I can't stand rap, but there are some artists that do have a good message, Toby Mac being one of them.
Yeah, I've NEVER been poor. God knows poor people in the United States might as well just give up the ghost, because they're totally kept down by THE MAN.
I was 17 when I got pregnant with my first, and hubby is a year younger than I am. We still worked our asses off to get to college, and while on our own in college we applied for every grant available, hubby used his army benefits and went AFROTC, and I waitressed midnight shift at Denny's.
We had less than 1000$ a month to pay rent, utilities, food, insurance, and all the other necessities that popped up - and let's not forget about the cost of childcare.
Now we're doing very well, thank you. We're quite comfortable with money, we give as much tzadekah as possible, and hubby's Major boards are in August. And it's not because we come from some fucking privileged class that has fucking set-asides for being fucking white.
Sorry to rant, but I'm just overly irritated at the victim mentality that pervades about people in poverty. I am not now, nor was I ever a victim; and perhaps if we stopped wailing and beating our chests about people who ARE in the lower segments of monetary society there would have to be some fucking personal responsiblity. THAT is the only thing that lets people climb out.
Fucking-A, awf.
I had to read that twice - at first, I thought it was "AFRO-TC" instead of "AF-ROTC".
I had to read that twice - at first, I thought it was "AFRO-TC" instead of "AF-ROTC".
Wasn't ev in the AFRO-TC?
Wasn't ev in the AFRO-TC?
Son, I taught the AFRO-TC everything they know about afros. I'm like the Sun Tzu of afros.
Don't have to take anything away...most don't vote anyway.
Son, I taught the AFRO-TC everything they know about afros. I'm like the Sun Tzu of afros.
ROFL!! This thread is too much.
Wonderful point, afw.
As for Hip Hop being disenfranchised middle class white boys. A couple of guys I buy my vinyl from, are middle class white boys (mid to late 20s) who work in well paid jobs in 'the city' (of London). Something I hope to be doing if I get this job I'm applying for.
But shitloads of disenfranchised middle & working class white boys listen to Eminem. Eminem is the epitomy of a 'wigga'.
As for myself I dont attempt to imitate black culture I just listen to it.
RTs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, anyone else enjoy the irony of the juxtaposition of these two paragraphs (which followed each other in the original):
Not to mention he completely missed my point. I guess it was too "reactionary" for him to grasp.
Gotta run back to my cleaning...
Son, I taught the AFRO-TC everything they know about afros. I'm like the Sun Tzu of afros.
More like the Shih-Tzu of Afros. ;)
I have never before noticed that AFROTC could be broken down.
That was flippin' hilarious.
Spiny, FL;
"Incredibly disenfranchised middle-class white boys" was sarcasm, since the supposedly disenfranchised black youth are no more so than I, except those with felony convictions, of course.
The trouble with basing any opinion on any nation or people on what is presented in any entertainment media is just that. They are entertainment media. Not historical studies, not scholarly works. They are designed to titillate and entertain, in the hopes of parting you from your cash.
Some are simply far more titillating than entertaining.
More like the Shih-Tzu of Afros. ;)
DWT, you nailed it. Of course, From London doesn't even base his opinions on successful entertainment media. He admits he listens to complete loser rappers who don't sell records. If they're so reflective of "the street" and they're so valuable as a record of the culture, FL, then why won't anyone but your pasty white ass buy their records?
This can also be applied on a larger, global scale. Victor Davis Hanson summed it up very well recently:
Its a mistake to think you know a people based only on their popular entertainment. Imperial Japan, like the Islamic world, decided that America was weak, decadent, and immoral based largely on our entertainment media. Who would believe that a culture that created Mickey Mouse, Coca-Cola and baseball could also produce fierce, determined warriors?
Like an atheist throwing up a cross to Dracula, that shit does not work on me. I know blacks, hip hop and culture far better that you do, white boy, all day long. You have no street cred with me on this subject.
Reminds me of that Chappelle show skit...
Leonard: Hey! What the hell you listening to?
White Kid: It's the new 50 Cent. Man, I'm from the streets! G-G-G G-G-G G-Unit!
Leonard: Come on... get in the car. G-G-G G-G-G Get your ass in the car!
Then Leonard promptly drops his ass off in the ghetto. :)
Son, I taught the AFRO-TC everything they know about afros. I'm like the Sun Tzu of afros.
Don't you mean AFRO-THC? ;-)
I also love how FL's 'all rappers hate America' argument morphed into 'I'm defending hip-hop from you white, racist DL oppressors!' I have it on good authority that the brothers are very proud of you. Fight the power, dogg!
How very white of you.
Being unhappy with "Whiteness" can have DANGEROUS consequences.
On the other hand, it's possible to be TOO white...